D&D (2024) Improved War Magic rules interpretation

[ECMO3]

We ran into two questions today about the EK's 18th level ability. The controversy is centered on the underlined:

Improved War Magic: When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace two of the attacks with a casting of one of your level 1 or level 2 Wizard spells that has a casting time of an action.


First: What spells qualify? It states "Wizard spells" not just "spells" or "spells you obtained with your EK spellcasting feature". So can you cast spells you acquired from a multiclass, feat or species. My answer was - Yes as long as those spells are on the Wizard spell list.

Second: Can you upcast those spells? It says 1st or 2nd level spells but not 1st or 2nd level slot, so can I upcast beyond 2nd level? My answer was: No, you can cast a 1st level spell with a 2nd level slot but you can't upcast to 3rd level or beyond.


Thoughts on RAW or RAI?

 

[Plaguescarred]

It's meant for spells from the Wizard list of 1st level or 2nd level (no upcast or upcasted 1st level) because an upcasted spell takes on the higher level for that casting.

Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot​

When a spellcaster casts a spell using a slot that is of a higher level than the spell, the spell takes on the higher level for that casting. For instance, if a Wizard casts Magic Missile using a level 2 slot, that Magic Missile is level 2. Effectively, the spell expands to fill the slot it is put into.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

We ran into two questions today about the EK's 18th level ability. The controversy is centered on the underlined:

Improved War Magic: When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace two of the attacks with a casting of one of your level 1 or level 2 Wizard spells that has a casting time of an action.


First: What spells qualify? It states "Wizard spells" not just "spells" or "spells you obtained with your EK spellcasting feature". So can you cast spells you acquired from a multiclass, feat or species. My answer was - Yes as long as those spells are on the Wizard spell list.

Second: Can you upcast those spells? It says 1st or 2nd level spells but not 1st or 2nd level slot, so can I upcast beyond 2nd level? My answer was: No, you can cast a 1st level spell with a 2nd level slot but you can't upcast to 3rd level or beyond.


Thoughts on RAW or RAI?

Yes, and maybe.

My thoughts, I would allow any spell they can cast with a slot with their casting stat to qualify as a wizard spell for the purposes of this. It is not a big deal and saves on bookkeeping.
I agree with you on upcasting.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I would allow any 1st or 2nd level spells the character can cast to be cast. I would not allow them to be upcasted.

 

[Charlaquin]

It's meant for spells from the Wizard list of 1st level or 2nd level (no upcast or upcasted 1st level) because an upcasted spell takes on the higher level for that casting.

I agree, though this makes me wonder if you could upcast a 1st level wizard spell to 2nd level with this feature. I’d be inclined to say yes, personally.

 

[FrogReaver]

I’d say a wizard spell is a spell on the wizard list, else things get kind of wonky. I’d say as written they can be upcast.

 

[Plaguescarred]

I agree, though this makes me wonder if you could upcast a 1st level wizard spell to 2nd level with this feature. I’d be inclined to say yes, personally.

I think of since when you cast a 1st-level spell using a 2nd-level slot, it becomes a 2nd-level level for that casting.

 

[Charlaquin]

So, my answers are:

1. A “wizard spell” is any spell that is on the wizard spell list or that you acquired with a feature that specifies it “counts as a wizard spell for you” - for example, I’m away from the book right now but if I recall correctly the Illusionist Wizard subclass gives you summon beast and summon fey always prepared and they count as wizard spells for you. I don’t think there are currently any features that give you access to a 1st or 2nd level spell that isn’t normally on the wizard spell list and makes it count as a wizard spell for you, but hypothetically I think spells acquired this way would qualify.

2. You have to cast the spell as a 1st or 2nd level spell, so you could upcast a 1st level spell to 2nd, but you could not upcast a 1st or 2nd level spell to 3rd level or higher.

 

[Plaguescarred]

Any spels that count as a Wizard spell for you should also be eligible for Improved War Magic indeed if its appropriate level.

 

[ECMO3]

Any spels that count as a Wizard spell for you should also be eligible for Improved War Magic indeed if its appropriate level.

But as a single class Eldritch Knight no spells carry the modifier "count as a Wizard spell for you". The EK prepares spells from the Wizard list, but he is not a Wizard.

It is clear RAI that it at least applies to the spells you prepare as an Eldritch Knight.

The question is really about for example Darkness from a Drow species, or Protection from Good and Evil from Magic Initiate-Cleric, or Tasha's Hideous Laughter from the Fey Touched feat or Sleep from a Sorcerer multiclass. All these spells are on the Wizard list.