D&D (2024) Improved War Magic rules interpretation

[Paul Farquhar]

qualifies. But never any spell that is not a Wizard spell, no matter what source it came from.

Technically correct, but I don’t think it really matters, and I don’t think it’s really worth the effort checking.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Technically correct, but I don’t think it really matters, and I don’t think it’s really worth the effort checking.

Well, as one example, you could never use it (or, rather, the basic version) to cast eldritch blast, because that is not and never can be a Wizard spell.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Well, as one example, you could never use it (or, rather, the basic version) to cast eldritch blast, because that is not and never can be a Wizard spell.

It’s also not a 1st or 2nd level spell, so disallowed anyway.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It’s also not a 1st or 2nd level spell, so disallowed anyway.

That would be why I added "or, rather, the basic version," because the effect of regular War Magic is that you can cast a Wizard cantrip in place of one attack. (In theory, since you have three attacks at the level you get Improved War Magic, this means you could cast both a Wizard cantrip and a 1st or 2nd level Wizard spell with the same Attack action.)

 

[UngainlyTitan]

MC is not a concern (since this is 18th level). It is spells through feats and species that are the real concern although the rules would apply for MC as well. The character in question has the following from features other than EK spellcasting:

Truestrike-Magic Initiate(Wizard) (works, becuase on the Wizard list)
Firebolt-Magic Initiate(Wizard) (works because on the Wizard list)
Tasha's Hideous Laughter-Magic Initiate(Wizard) (works because it is on Wizard list)
Dancing Lights-Drow (works because on the Wizard list)
Faerie Fire-Drow (does not work, not on Wizard list)
Darkness-Drow (works, on Wizard list)
Levitate-Drow High Magic (works, on Wizard list)
Detect Magic-Drow High Magic (works, on Wizard list)
Dissonant Whispers-Fey Touched (does not work, not on Wizard list)
Cause Fear-Shadow touched (works on Wizard list)
Invisibility-Shadow Touched (works on Wizard list)
Command-Magic Initiate(cleric) (does not work, not on Wizard list)
Guidance-Magic Initiate(cleric) (does not work, not on Wizard list)

As an aside all of these spells are on Charisma, not Intelligence. The PC has a 20 Charisma and an 8 Intelligence.

Dissonant Whispers is the one they really want to cast as part of the attack action. Hit with an attack then cast DW with disadvantage on the save and then follow it up with Warcaster-Cause Fear as a reaction when the bad guy runs away, keeping him away. You still have action surge and a bonus action, each also potentially with a spell (as long as you only use one slot).

My first reaction to this is that an EK is an Int spellcaster and so an EK features will not work on spells cast with a non Int stat irrespective of where they come from. Otherwise, one is going to get some weird interactions if multiclassed as a Cha caster class.
My second reaction is: I would let them all be cast as an EK if they were all being cast on Int.

 

[ECMO3]

My first reaction to this is that an EK is an Int spellcaster and so an EK features will not work on spells cast with a non Int stat irrespective of where they come from. Otherwise, one is going to get some weird interactions if multiclassed as a Cha caster class.
My second reaction is: I would let them all be cast as an EK if they were all being cast on Int.

This would have been a lot easier to figure out RAW if they had tied it to "your Eldritch Knight Spells" or had like you said any spell cast using Intelligence but they did not really say that though, so that would be homebrew.

The old War Magic worked with any spells, and in play it did lead to a lot of wierd interactions with cantrips, especially with Eldritch Blast. Two levels of Warlock for EB-AB and then dumping Intelligence and getting an attack and then an entire barrage of EB/AB. This was a fairly common build on our tables before the new rules and it was usually combined with some Charisma spells from feats as in the build shown. They still had Wizard spells, but those that don't rely on spell attacks or saves (and there are lots of good Gish-oriented and exploration/social Wizard spells that do this).

The 18th level ability with leveled spells is not much of an issue for multiclassing because on an 18th level fighter you can't have more than 2 levels of other classes. The example with a Warlock dip above would not get that until 20th level.

 

[ECMO3]

It’s also not a 1st or 2nd level spell, so disallowed anyway.

The 7th level War Magic ability covers Cantrips and it is "Wizard Cantrips" only.

Interesting though, due to the wording, with 3 attacks at 18th level you could take the attack action and use the 7th level ability to cast one Cantrip (using 1 attack) and then cast one 1st or 2nd level spell with the 18th level ability (using the other two attacks).

 

[UngainlyTitan]

This would have been a lot easier to figure out RAW if they had tied it to "your Eldritch Knight Spells" or had like you said any spell cast using Intelligence but they did not really say that though, so that would be homebrew.

The old War Magic worked with any spells, and in play it did lead to a lot of wierd interactions with cantrips, especially with Eldritch Blast. Two levels of Warlock for EB-AB and then dumping Intelligence and getting an attack and then an entire barrage of EB/AB. This was a fairly common build on our tables before the new rules and it was usually combined with some Charisma spells from feats as in the build shown. They still had Wizard spells, but those that don't rely on spell attacks or saves (and there are lots of good Gish-oriented and exploration/social Wizard spells that do this).

The 18th level ability with leveled spells is not much of an issue for multiclassing because on an 18th level fighter you can't have more than 2 levels of other classes. The example with a Warlock dip above would not get that until 20th level.

Personally, I would not have allowed non int spells count as EK spells under the old rules but it your table allowed it in the old rules why not allow it in the new version?
My view in the old version would be that is the EK has those spells and they are cast using the EK spell casting stat they count as EK spells. And I would argue that there is an assumption that all spells cast by an EK are EK spells. This seems to be reinforced by the wording in the new version.
Your choices are grandfather in the old dispensation or go with a different one and there you can go strictly on the wording (eliminating many existing builds), or find a different consensus.

 

[ECMO3]

nm