Improving and Changing The Assassin

[Rystil Arden]

I find it difficult to conceive of taking so many PrCs. Nevertheless I appreciate the story. What do you think about limiting the ability to take an extra sneak attack die to 1 time (meaning you could get a max of 8 SA, at the cost of one of the cooler 3rd-tier Assasin abilities)? 3 more SA is 10 more damage on a sneak attack (by level 15), when a rogue just starts to get their 3rd iterative attack (at a low bonus). A 'specialized' assaisn would only have 2 more SA, or approx 7 more damage per hit.

Technik

I believe that 8 is still too much. Anything that gave more than full SA (I consider rogue SA full SA, since it is the current maximum) would need to have an obvious detriment to counteract it, rather than simply a loss of even more cool abilities. Even 7 is pushing it, and would require the PrC at least had wizard BAB and d4 hit dice, in my opinion.

 

[Technik4]

Even 7 is pushing it, and would require the PrC at least had wizard BAB and d4 hit dice, in my opinion.

I have a feeling if your poll had asked if a PrC could be balanced with +7d6 SA over 10 levels, the numbers would not be quite so skewed...

Technik

 

[Rystil Arden]

I have a feeling if your poll had asked if a PrC could be balanced with +7d6 SA over 10 levels, the numbers would not be quite so skewed...

Technik

I agree. I would expect that there would be more people in slightly overpowered and less in significantly. Even I agree that a PrC could be balanced with 7d6 SA over ten levels, but I just don't think this one is.

 

[Kelleris]

If you made this a higher-level PrC (say, qualify at 7th, take at 8th), you might be able to get away with faster SA progression (not every level, I think) and drop the BAB down to a wizard's. That would have the effect of making the assassin more reliant on the single deadly blow than the rogue. If you fiddled it right, the rogue's iterative attacks with fewer SA dice would about equal the damage from the assassin's single blow with greater dice. And even with wizard BAB, the assassin's attack against a flat-footed target will still generally hit.

EDIT: The idea is that you get a PrC that makes you deadlier in the assassiny ways, but not much better as an overall combatant than the rogue.

 

[Technik4]

Alt Assasin

Hit Die: d6
BAB: 3/4
Saves: Ref Good, Fort and Will Bad

Requirements:
Alignment: Any Evil
Skills: Disguise 4 ranks, Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks
Special: The character must kill someone for no other reason than to join the assasins.

Class Skills:
As pg 180 DMG
Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifier

1: Dark Art, Poison Use, The Killing Way
2: Sneak Attack +1d6
3: Sneak Attack +2d6
4: Sneak Attack +3d6
5: Dark Art, Arrogant and Infamous
6: Sneak Attack +4d6
7: Sneak Attack +5d6
8: Sneak Attack +6d6
9: Dark Art
10: Sneak Attack +7d6, Predator's Mien

Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: As pg 180 DMG

Sneak Attack: As Rogue

Poison Use: as DMG

The Killing Way: The only way to advance as an assasin is to continue practicing your trade. You must murder at least 2 people to advance to second level for no better reason than because you wanted to in order to further your own training, fame, or wealth. Each level you must kill at least 2 people to advance to the next. To advance to the 10th level you must kill at least 3 more people for the same reasons as above.

Arrogant and Infamous: You gain a bonus equal to your assasin level to intimidate and sense motive rolls with creatures of your type.

Dark Arts: These abilities may be chosen at levels 1, 5, and 9. If the ability is part of a path, earlier parts must be taken before later ones.

-Death Path-
A. Death Attack- as DMG
B. Quicken Death Attack- 1/day you may make a Death Attack after only 1 round of study.
C. Marked for Death- 1/week you may study a subject and launch your Death Attack anytime during the next week. You may not use this ability with Quicken Death Attack. If you study someone else, you lose the original target (and may not use this ability until the week is up).

-Melee Path-
A. Uncanny Dodge- Stacks with existing, as Rogue/Barbarian ability
B. Improved Uncanny Dodge- Stacks with existing, no benefit to Rogues/Barbarians (others gain the ability)
C. Sneak Attack +1d6

-Poison Path-
A. Poison Resistance- you gain a bonus to save against poison equal to half your Assasin level (round down).
B. Poison Specialist- there is a 50% chance poison you apply to a weapon (and then wield) will remain on the blade an additional round (allowing you to strike without reapplying).
C. Poison Master- You can distill/extract a more powerful form of a poison. This requires 1 hour of uninterrupted work and access to an alchemist's lab as well as 2 vials of the poison. The resulting single vial of poison has its initial and secondary DC improved by 2. Additionally, your Specialist ability is always 100% when you use these poisons.

-Spellcaster Path-
Spellcasting level is equal to level in PrC, DMs can approve spell swaps from same level of Assasin's spell list. If you do not have spellcasting ability, it applies if you ever do acquire spellcasting ability.
A. +1 level of existing spellcasting class and Disguise Self 1/day (must have Int or Cha 11+)
B. +1 level of existing spellcasting class and Invisibility 1/day (must have Int or Cha 12+)
C. +1 level of existing spellcasting class and Greater Invisibility 1/day (must have Int or Cha 14+)

-Stealth Path-
A. Evasion- If you already have Evasion, you gain Improved Evasion
B. Skill Mastery- As the rogue ability. You must choose Hide and Move Silently
C. Hide in Plain Sight- as DMG

Predator's Mien- You gain +2 charisma or +2 intelligence which stacks like the ability bonuses you get every 4 levels.

By taking the first part of Death, Melee, and Poison Paths you can simulate the DMG Assasin without spells or Hide in Plain Sight (but with +2d6 SA).

Thoughts?

Technik

Edited: To prevent front-loading (Thanks Nifft!) I also put in an extra ability at level 10, just to encourage people finish leveling (as opposed to cherry-picking another PrC with 1st level SA and another ability). Also added a flavoful bonus to Intimidate and Sense Motive at 5th, because honestly how much harder would it be to lie to someone you knew had killed at least a dozen people? Finally, made it a requirement to kill at least two marks before you can advance another assasin level.

 

[Nifft]

I also find Rystil's argument about a lack of precedent to this idea a valid one. If this idea is so logical, why hasn't it been sprung upon?

I don't. I do novel things all day for work, and then I come home and try to do novel things for play. Most stupidly broken things are obvious and unoriginal -- and many original things are just fine.

"It's new" is the opposite of condemnation.

Anyway -- it has been done before. I tried something similar -- no spells, SA +7d6 / 10 levels, a couple of special abilities dealing with poison, etc.

Perfect for monsters who came late to the Sneak Attack game (like Half-Fiend Phase Spider Assassins of Lolth).

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

T4 -- one suggestion: don't give SA +1d6 at 1st level, and make 10th level cool (and by cool, I mean totally sweet).

Poison Use and one special ability are fine for 1st level.

On the other hand, 10th level should offer SA +1d6 and a special goodie.

-- N, sworn foe of front-loading

 

[Rystil Arden]

I don't. I do novel things all day for work, and then I come home and try to do novel things for play. Most stupidly broken things are obvious and unoriginal -- and many original things are just fine.

"It's new" is the opposite of condemnation.

Anyway -- it has been done before. I tried something similar -- no spells, SA +7d6 / 10 levels, a couple of special abilities dealing with poison, etc.

Perfect for monsters who came late to the Sneak Attack game (like Half-Fiend Phase Spider Assassins of Lolth).

Cheers, -- N

Most stupidly broken things are more-powerful versions of something else that already has a precedent. Disliking breaking this precedent to directly increase power may be looking down on a particular sort of change, but it is a far cry from condemning originality.

 

[Nifft]

Most stupidly broken things are more-powerful versions of something else that already has a precedent. Disliking breaking this precedent to directly increase power may be looking down on a particular sort of change, but it is a far cry from condemning originality.

Condemn "bad". Originality is orthogonal.

If you understand that, come back with a real arguement.

Thanks, -- N

 

[Rystil Arden]

Condemn "bad". Originality is orthogonal.

If you understand that, come back with a real arguement.

Thanks, -- N

Remember, you're the one who put the words in my mouth and built up the straw-man of "originality is bad" to villify. I never said that.