Improving the Quarterstaff

[Tetsubo]

I have always loved the idea of a lightly armoured fighter specialized in a quarterstaff. Sort of a peasant hero concept. Or a martial arts style fighter. But the quarterstaff is a sub-par weapon in many ways for a fighter. I like the idea of building the skill with a weapon into the class rather than into the weapon itself. Since a fighter gets lots of feats this is doable. But what should be added to a quarterstaff to make it a more martial weapon? Ideas:

A feat that adds 5' of reach but doesn't allow the staff to be used as a double weapon that round.

A feat that bumps up the damage die one size.

A feat that grants a +2 bonus to Disarm and Trip.

A feat that adds a deflection AC bonus. How much?

The problem is that any number of exotic weapons would do this with only spending a single feat...

Any thoughts? Should I do a PrC or a full 20 level core class? Maybe just a gestalt Fighter/Monk...?

 

[Knight-of-Roses]

Break it into two feats?

Offensive Staff Combat, PreReq: Str and Dex 11+, BAB +1
Use staff as a reach weapon, requires a full attack. Cannot be combined with double weapon fighting.
When making a full attack, your first attack with the staff treats the weapons as if it was one-size larger for damage. Cannot be combined with double weapon fighting.
Gain a +2 competence bonus when rolling to confirm a critical threat with a staff.

Defensive Staff Combat, PreReq: Str and Dex 11+, BAB +1
+2 competence bonus with rolls to trip, disarm and resist being disarmed when using a staff.
+1 shield bonus to AC against melee attacks when wielding a staff.
Gain one extra AoO per round when wielding a staff.

You could add a mastery level to each feat that would improves the bonuses granted.

 

[Aestolia]

in my game i just allow the first thing you mentioned. Kind of like Shorten the haft. (feat allowing reach weapons to be used as a no reach weapon for one round). for reach weapons in general a feat makes sense since there's so many it can be done with. but going the other direction, a non reach weapon gaining reach, there's only 2 i can think of that can do this:

Quarterstaff, should logically be able to do this making it the only real bludgeoning reach weapon.

And from Complete adventurer, Long Axe which is not a reach weapon unless you put at least 3 points of power attack into it, where it becomes reach for the round.

Given this really i don't see why someone can't just grab the quarterstaff and sacrifice the double weapon for a round to use it as a reach weapon.

There's the longstaff, also from completee adventurer, it's an exotic weapon and proficiency gains you the ability to be unflankable when fighting defensively, full defense, or using combat expertise. it's also treated as a quarterstaff for all other feat purposes.

 

[Claudius Gaius]

Most of those options seem to be more about improving the wielder than about improving the quarterstaff. If you actually want to do that and maintain the existing weapon balances, try introducing a new notion - call it “advanced weapon techniques”.

Advanced Weapon Techniques:
Weapons may be wielded in more effective fashions as your martial skills improve: If you opt to wield a Simple Weapon as a Martial Weapon, or a Martial Weapons as an Exotic Weapon, you get one improvement. If you wield a Simple Weapon as an Exotic Weapon you get two. Possible improvement options: increase damage die one size, increase critical threat range by 1, reach, add close to a reach weapon, set, throwing, trip, disarm, immune to disarm, additional damage type, ability to sunder, and +1 to users AC. Once chosen for a particular character, the options do not change.

That would also help give the more combative types a reason to occasionally use some of the simple weapons.

 

[Felnar]

similar to Claudius Gaius's, i would use a non-feat solution

either martial weapon proficiency upgrades simple weapons somehow
or
create new martial versions of simple weapons (e.g. reinforced staff)

 

[Knight-of-Roses]

While I really like Claudius Gaius' solution, it makes simple weapons used with martial skill equal to martial weapons and cheaper to boot (except for crossbows which it simply makes amazing). There must be a median between the two, but I am not sure where it is.

 

[Claudius Gaius]

Not quite: the biggest differences on the simple and martial weapons charts for light melee weapons are the Dagger and Kukri (6 GP) where you could make a generic dagger work as well as a "heavy curved knife". For One-handed melee weapons its Club versus Rapier (20 GP) and the rapier still enjoys an edge in critical threat range even if you use your one-point bonus to upgrade the club's threat range. For Two-handed melee weapons its Quarterstaff versus Falchion (75 GP) and the Falchion has a 1.5 point damage edge and a two-step edge in critical range. In ranged weapons the biggest difference is the Sling and Composite Longbow (100 GP) and the composite bow still enjoys a 2-step edge in damage dice, better range, and an improved critical multiplier.

Still, since its primarily theme that we seem to be after here, try the Special Effects rule instead:

The Special Effects Rule:
"If it doesn't make a mechanical difference, it can look like whatever you want."

As far as weapons go, this would mean that - as long as you use the same game statistics (with the possible exception of changing the damage type) you can say that your weapon looks like anything remotely-reasonable that you like. Go ahead, buy a specially-crafted and reinforced staff uses the same game statistics as a greatsword if you want. It does bludgeoning damage instead of slashing, but its not like that matters much.

 

[Tetsubo]

Not quite: the biggest differences on the simple and martial weapons charts for light melee weapons are the Dagger and Kukri (6 GP) where you could make a generic dagger work as well as a "heavy curved knife". For One-handed melee weapons its Club versus Rapier (20 GP) and the rapier still enjoys an edge in critical threat range even if you use your one-point bonus to upgrade the club's threat range. For Two-handed melee weapons its Quarterstaff versus Falchion (75 GP) and the Falchion has a 1.5 point damage edge and a two-step edge in critical range. In ranged weapons the biggest difference is the Sling and Composite Longbow (100 GP) and the composite bow still enjoys a 2-step edge in damage dice, better range, and an improved critical multiplier.

Still, since its primarily theme that we seem to be after here, try the Special Effects rule instead:

The Special Effects Rule:
"If it doesn't make a mechanical difference, it can look like whatever you want."

As far as weapons go, this would mean that - as long as you use the same game statistics (with the possible exception of changing the damage type) you can say that your weapon looks like anything remotely-reasonable that you like. Go ahead, buy a specially-crafted and reinforced staff uses the same game statistics as a greatsword if you want. It does bludgeoning damage instead of slashing, but its not like that matters much.

I've used the Special Effects rule myself in the past. For example: using the two-bladed Sword mechanics but changing the description to a longer shaft and shorter blades and changing the name to Bladed Staff. I also used the Dire Flail mechanics and changed the description to a length of chain with blunt weights at the ends.

But in this instance I am trying to emulate a warrior that actually uses a plain wooden staff. One that could be destroyed and created anew without issue.

New question: Craft (Weaponsmithing) or Craft (Woodworking) for making a Q-staff? Which makes more sense?

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I would say something like:

Adoptable Staff Weilder:
You have learned to strike opponents with a Staff in a wide variety of manners.
- As an immediate action you can adjust your grip for a Staff weapon to any of the following:
- Double weapon
- one-handed weapon with reach
- two handed weapon

and

Master of the Staff:
Prereq: Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
You have learned to use inertial and leverage to deal greater levels of damage with a staff
Any staff you wield deals damage as if an unarmed attack from a monk that is one size smaller than you and with as many levels as your BAB.

and

Off-hand parry
You have learned to defend yourself better when weilding two weapons.
-When fighting with two weapons, you gain a +2 Shield bonus to AC for each off hand attack that you do not take. This bonus lasts until the beginning of your next action.


With those I think you could have a pretty fair peasant hero.

 

[Celebrim]

http://www.enworld.org/archive/index.php/t-190308.html