D&D 4E In 4E Asmodeus will be a god!

[Gentlegamer]

Yes, and Milton's Asmodeus is just a Latin-ifying of the Greek version of some Arabic transcription of that name. S versus Sh is not distinctive in some language sets (but is in others, hence "shibboleth"), replacing a final -e or -ae with -eos or -eas is a common Greekifying, -eus is the Latin equivalent.

Quite right!

 

[Gentlegamer]

But in purely language terms, a god is a powerful supernatural entity who is believed to have influence over nature. That describes everything from a mythological dryad to the big G. That is only descriptive.

However, in D&D terms, going from archdevil to god may mean something more significant and specific, just as talking about a nymph versus one of the Twelve is significant among the Greek gods. Or it might just mean someone said, "Look, he's the ultimate evil, he has an unholy symbol, he has worshippers and cults, just call him a god and be done with it."

Again, quite right!

Usually, we think of a "god" as a being with worshipers, but this is not a necessary component of deity, strictly-defined, as you note correctly.

 

[A'koss]

I also would have rather seen Lolth, Tiamat and any other "arisen" fiend lord moved back down to their 'tweener status in the new edition. I never liked the idea of placing these classic foes "out of reach" of mortal heroes...

 

[I'm A Banana]

Generally, becoming a god in D&D is associated with a few things:

(a) A certain "critical mass" of worshipers (possibly just a "critical percentage" of people on a given prime world)

(b) Accomplishing some great planes-shaking deed (Asmodeus and Vecna have this...though how Orcus managed to do this without ascending is anyone's guess!)

(c) Being sponsored by or somehow gaining the power of another god

...and probably a handful of other ways (how did Cuthbert do it?). It's a big event, but it doesn't always make you any more powerful...Vecna wasn't exactly handed the world on a platter, just perhaps a lot more time to try and get it delivered.

 

[Gargauth]

Yes, and Milton's Asmodeus is just a Latin-ifying of the Greek version of some Arabic transcription of that name. S versus Sh is not distinctive in some language sets (but is in others, hence "shibboleth"), replacing a final -e or -ae with -eos or -eas is a common Greekifying, -eus is the Latin equivalent.

I started to mention translation issues but it's late At any rate, this makes the reference even more vague and meaningless, especially in the context of a rulebook for a roleplaying game. What I mean to say is that since the name of the "demon" can be changed in translation, the name becomes much less important that the being itself and the Asmodeus of the Monster Manual is clearly not the one referenced by the Talmud, Milton, or anyone else. Lets just boil this down to the truth: a DM went looking for cool names and found one in Paradise Lost, likely having no idea of its origins and certainly not taking pains to render a realistic interpretation of the myth (or what have you).

 

[see]

By the 1e Deities & Demigodsthe following beings were gods:

Demogorgon
Juiblex
Orcus
Yeenoghu

Asmodeus
Baalzebul
Dispater
Geryon

Bahamut
Tiamat

Lolth

Elemental Princes of Evil

Ssendam (Slaad Lord of the Insane)
Ygorl (Slaad Lord of Entropy)

 

[Treebore]

By the 1e Deities & Demigodsthe following beings were gods:

Demogorgon
Juiblex
Orcus
Yeenoghu

Asmodeus
Baalzebul
Dispater
Geryon

Bahamut
Tiamat

Lolth

Elemental Princes of Evil

Ssendam (Slaad Lord of the Insane)
Ygorl (Slaad Lord of Entropy)

In the "Treebore Edition" of D&D they still are. Plus, for me, Asmodeous was always a pseudonym for the "Ruler of Hell".

 

[Soel]

I dig Asmo as a true god. Its about time for some real advancement in this regard.

I hope Baphomet gets some more love too (nothing like an invasion of Bulezau on the material plane!)

Finally, I hope some cosmic rocks fall on Lolth and all things drow.

 

[Yair]

I don't have any problem with devils and demons being gods. I think it's appropriate, especially for archdevils, to grant power to their acolytes. It would be better to grant disciples of the chaotic demons independent (arcane) power, as that will lead to a more chaotic power structure.

I would like to see a clearer explanation of what a god is in D&D presented in the core rules (probably the DMG), and perhaps expanded upon in a supplement (Deities & Demigods?). Merely stating that gods follow certain rules or provide certain benefits to clerics isn't enough.

My favorite view is that divinity is the founding principles behind the universe, which cannot be altered or destroyed, but gods are just a temporary personification of these elements of reality so can be killed or subsumed. Deities are specific individuals that take on the mantle and powers of eternal portfolios. Thus ultimate Evil is an element of reality and will manifest itself in some way or another even if you kill Asmodeus, the current god of evil. Today Vecna might be able to kill a god and take its place, however, and killing asmodeus would weaken the power of Evil in the cosmos.

My most detailed cosmology was for the Forgotten Realms. Ao was the unchanging eternal Truth, utterly incomprehensible to mere mortals and not truly knowable even to deities. Selune was all the things carved from this reality (the Celestial Planes - things like Nature, Love...) by arbitrary division (Mystra, the Astral Plane), with Shar (the Lower Planes - Evil, Darkness...) being all that remains, the shadows of the things that are, the dialectic opposite of the defined created by the definition. Each deity was a concept (e.g. Nature) and a plane manifesting it in its true Platonic form, with subdivisions spewing new planes or parts of planes and deities (Selune/Existence has a part which is Silvanus/Nature which has a part which is Mielikki/Forests, which in turn includes forest animals like Lurue/Unicorns).

More to the point, was Asmodia / Amosdeus named in Old or New Testaments? I found a mention from Milton's paradice lost, but how much has been biblical canon?

Ashmadai is also mentioned in some Jewish legends regarding King Solomon, as alluded to above.

 

[Tharen the Damned]

But what about Orcus?

It is always Orcus who gets the shaft.
First he is killed by a spoiled Half-God brat.
Then the shizophrem Ape-Reptile thing gets a whole campaign, but not Orcus.
Then the six fingered Loverboy is the main Shemer in a "Return to Book", but Orcus is the scapegoat
Then everyone get promoted to God Status, but not Orcus.

But you can not keep him down!
Oh no, he will rise to be the ruler of the Abyss.
The God of all Demons.
And if it takes 5 more Editions, one day he will rule supreme.