In-game concept of spell levels?

[Quasqueton]

What is your in-game description of the concept of spell levels. ie. Fireball is above scorching ray but below wall of fire.

Quasqueton

 

[Crothian]

They are spell levels. Spell levels are a very in game concept. All spellcasters know they can cast X spells of each level, and that they have to master the lower level spells before they can get the higher level ones.

 

[Jeph]

Given that spell level and caster level are easily measurable to any scientific minded character, we've given them concrete in-game pralelles, dubbing the former House of Power and the latter Circle of Power. So, for instance, a Fighter 3/Wizard 5 with the Practiced Spellcaster feat would have attained the Third House and Eigth Circle. And, borrowing from Sepulchrave II's SH, we call individual spell slots Valences, just because it's such a hep slice of nomenclature.

--Jeff

 

[Doomhawk]

In my games, spell levels are not even referred to in-game; they're an entirely out-of-character concept. The character knows and understands that fireball is more difficult to cast than scorching ray, but he doesn't know what "2nd level" and "3rd level" means. This is similar to the way that there are varying levels of difficulty in any other subject - math (calculus is more complex than geometry), science (particle physics is more complex than Newtonian physics), literature (Shakespeare is more complex than childrens' books), etc.

Jeph's system is a nifty way of doing it too, it's just not my piece of pie.

 

[RuminDange]

Spell Level's are referred to as circles of magic.
A 0-level is the First Circle of Magic, etc up to 10th Circle for 9th level spells; however sometimes*, 0-level is just called cantrips/orisons and the 1st Circle is 1 level spells, and 10th Circle is Epic Spells.
Epic magic is referred to as High Magic or "Beyond Normal Means"*
Spell slots for 10th though 20th (Epic level Improved Spell Capacity is not referred to at all since no spell actually exists of these levels).
This all comes from the Goddess of Magic in which her symbol is 10 interlocking rings. Also her temples are 10 towers built in a way were one tower is center and the other nine tower ring it each taller then previous. These temples take 100 years to build, 10 per tower, due to the enchantments involved with each step of construction. It's a lifes work to start and complete a temple for most priests.

RD

*depends on who is speaking and where in the world they are from, as different groups, races, peoples have different views or outlooks on magic.

 

[Ry]

Spell level is an in-game concept IMC, but caster level is not. Casters are divided into Orders, which correspond to the highest spell level they can cast. So a 5th level wizard is a Wizard of the Third Order, since he can cast 3rd level spells.

 

[shilsen]

Given that spell level and caster level are easily measurable to any scientific minded character, we've given them concrete in-game pralelles, dubbing the former House of Power and the latter Circle of Power. So, for instance, a Fighter 3/Wizard 5 with the Practiced Spellcaster feat would have attained the Third House and Eigth Circle. And, borrowing from Sepulchrave II's SH, we call individual spell slots Valences, just because it's such a hep slice of nomenclature.

--Jeff

I'm another person who stole Sepulchrave's "valence" term.

In my games, spell levels are not even referred to in-game; they're an entirely out-of-character concept. The character knows and understands that fireball is more difficult to cast than scorching ray, but he doesn't know what "2nd level" and "3rd level" means. This is similar to the way that there are varying levels of difficulty in any other subject - math (calculus is more complex than geometry), science (particle physics is more complex than Newtonian physics), literature (Shakespeare is more complex than childrens' books), etc.

Bad analogies. Spell levels are quantifiable and measurable in a way that the relations between calculus-geometry, Shakespeare-children's lit, etc. are not. Having spell levels as a purely metagame concept means that nobody in the history of your world has ever figured out that, for example, a cleric who can cast 1st lvl spells can cast each and every 1st lvl spell on the cleric spell list, and as soon as he can cast 2nd lvl spells, has access to each and every one of the 2nd lvl ones.

I can see spell levels as a metagame concept in a heavily homebrewed campaign world with a lot of changes to spellcasting, but in a world which uses the standard D&D rules, spellcasters not having access to the concept seems incredibly implausible, IMO.

 

[painandgreed]

There's no way around spell levels as an ingame concept, unless you go to a different system of determining scroll cost and such. There is simply too much that has it worked into ingame going ons. For that matter, I'd like caster level to not be in game but with a rigid uniform progression that every single magic user goes through, I don't see how it could not be.

 

[coyote6]

I'm planning on stealing from Sepulchrave, too (as basically a synonym of RuminDange's "circle"; so a "third-valence spell", "a wizard capable of casting valence four spells", or something like that).

(Still have to decide about zero level spells -- "first valence" or just "cantrip"?)

 

[Hypersmurf]

Spell level is an in-game concept IMC, but caster level is not. Casters are divided into Orders, which correspond to the highest spell level they can cast. So a 5th level wizard is a Wizard of the Third Order, since he can cast 3rd level spells.

How do they account for observable caster-level-related effects?

Spell duration being the obvious one. Your Third Order wizards can (almost always) be placed in one of two categories - the ones whose Shield spells last for five minutes, and the ones whose Shield spells last for six minutes. A Third Order wizard (almost always) produces three missiles with a Magic Missile spell.

On the other hand, a Third Order sorcerer's Shield spell lasts for either six minutes or seven minutes. And he produces either three missiles or four missiles... directly corresponding to the six or seven minute spell duration.

Do none of the Spellcraft lecturers at Wizard U ever address these issues?

-Hyp.