In light of recent events by Avalanche Press (Company bashing not desired)

Will you continue to be an Avalanche Press customer?

  • Yes! I really don't see what is so bad about this.

    Votes: 2 1.1%
  • No! I'm sorry, but I just can't support them because of this.

    Votes: 114 61.3%
  • I honestly don't care. I might buy their stuff, I might not. But these events won't affect my decisi

    Votes: 70 37.6%

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I agree that their apology sounded a bit insincere. Their apology does raise an interesting point though, which is whether a reviewer should be telling people not to buy someone's product. I can understand slamming it for its shortcomings, and describing its contents, but shouldn't that last conclusion - the buying decision - be left to the person reading the review? If placed in a similar situation, how many of us wouldn't be hurt and offended?

I still would have to be greatly impressed to purchase one of AP's products, but hey, after ignoring Eden Studios for a while (unintenionally. I'm sure that they're a fine publisher), I finally took note with their new monster book Lieber Bestarius, which is quite good!
 

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I have a question that may or may not be relevent. If a reviewer here or at another place gives a product a negative review, why don't they send it back to the publisher? If you have no use for it (based on the review), is it not ethical, then, for you to go ahead and send it back?

Or is the reviewed copy the "payment" for doing the review, which might tread in dangerous territory.
 

Embarrassing....

I am a reviewer (a good one I'm told); this policy is surprising, but not unheard of. What is ridiculous is to expect a good review from those to whom you send materials, or to say someone who gets a free copy doesn't have the right to trash a book. What if I get paid to write the review? What if I get paid more than the book cost me? Another thing is, many reviewers get "free" books from sources tat purchased the books originally, what about those reviewers? Noting Mr. Figueroa's apology, I still feel there is a quibble, and that is: a reviewer has a right, and sometimes a duty, to tell people not to buy a book. Some things are that bad.

I didn't buy any of Avalanche's stuff before I was a reviewer, simply because I thought, "If they have to put these women on the covers, what must the content be like?" I thought that because, even though I was interested in their products based on Scandinavian lore, I knew that the pictures on the cover represented nothing historic at all. (I'm talking here about Ragnarok!, Greenland Saga, and Doom of Odin.) Since the cover illustration was obviously not well researched, I assumed that the product's content was also inferiorly investigated. I know you're not supposed to judge a book by its cover, but on a limited budget one has to make choices. This bias could hold true for many of Avalanche's products, and is not simply based on sexism of the cover image as I've shown.

On the sexism note, I should make a few brief points. First of all, someone indicated that there were no scantily clad women in history. That's simply wrong, for many eras. The book Nile: War in Heliopolis is inaccurate historically because the woman is wearing too much clothing (though, ostensibly, she could be wearing an Egyptian (Kemetic) robe, many women went topless in ancient Egypt). One might also note that some recent releases by Avalanche don't have such risqué covers (I, Mordred, All for One and One for All, and Vlad the Impaler Blood Prince of Wallachia).

Mistwell represented that some video game companies did the same thing. Mistwell also asserted that book publishers perpetrate identical schemes. Fast Learner (and others) asserted the latter was untrue, at least in reference to the book industry (Fast Learner stating he was a book critic). I happen to know that there are entities in the video game industry that do indeed have the same policy, though I can't name any names. (I was the art director for a video game world record, news, and reviews site.) The difference between them and Avalanche, is they don't go around saying that this is their policy.

One thing a lot of persons seem to be forgetting is that bad publicity is better than no publicity. There are some people who've never heard of Avalanche's products. You can bet some of them will go looking now that they have, and some of those people will become Avalanche's customers. Avalanche seems not to know this little tidbit, and neither do the video game companies that do it. There are those who are fans of the Avalanche product line that see a review on a site and say to themselves, "That book is out now? I gotta run by the game store!" I doubt Avalanche will see significant decreases in sales, even with this policy.

There is a point to not giving your product to someone you think is biased. If a site gives consistently bad reviews to a product line that others have little problem with, there may be a compatibility issue. If there is such an issue, then sending free samples to that reviewer is a waste of time and money. Of course, there are better ways to handle such issues than Avalanche's response. Further, the overall grade of Avalanche's books on EN World proves there's no such issue.

One must note, however, that the letter from Avalanche was to a specific individual, and not for the general public. Perhaps it was not the best idea to share that letter with the public. On the other hand, a representative of a professional entity must always think about what he or she says in any missive, and how that reflects on the company.

Boycotting Avalanche based on this faux pas is ridiculous. Maybe take any review you read with a grain of salt, but that's it. You should do that anyway, because as a wise person pointed out to me (Steve Creech), despite attempts to be objective, reviews are opinions. As a reviewer, I've seen a book I thought was garbage get middling grades form others, and lauds from still others. I focus on all aspects in my reviews, but I tend to be a stickler for an educated writing style and organized presentation, playability and accuracy of mechanics, a high-quality story, and superior art and design. Others prefer one aspect, or another group of aspects. One learns to trust certain reviewers, if there are regular ones—or reads multiple reviews.

As a reviewer, I'd like to point out that reviews aren't that important. That doesn't mean I don't do my best.

Wulf Ratbane shows a good point about reviews:
The thorough and critical ones are absolutely necessary to improve your product.
That's my aim when I do reviews: to be thorough, and critical. Reviewers need to be educated in their subject matter to do this, however.

All this said, I still feel that Avalanche's reaction and policy are less than ideal for them and for their customers. It is unethical to expect good reviews, just because you provide free product. A reviewer has a duty top his or her readership, not to the companies that send the books. Reviewing is like providing advertising, getting the item in question into the consumer's consciousness. (Once again, any publicity is better than none.)

Game writers, artists, and companies are well advised to take a piece of advice I learned from reading Monte Cook's website and took to heart. Don't bother about bad reviews, they're opinions. But, feel free to (diplomatically) point out factual errors in reviews. Reviewers are human (most of us, anyhow), and make mistakes.

Another thing that confuses me is that, if it is Steve Creech's review that got them in a tizzy, why? He gave Black Flags a 3.6 out of 5!

Cheers!

:D
 

King_Stannis said:
I have a question that may or may not be relevent. If a reviewer here or at another place gives a product a negative review, why don't they send it back to the publisher? If you have no use for it (based on the review), is it not ethical, then, for you to go ahead and send it back?

Or is the reviewed copy the "payment" for doing the review, which might tread in dangerous territory.
It's not payment, but why should the reviewer -- who if respected is doing the publisher a service -- go to the expense or effort of sending it back? This is especially true in the case of books and other printed material where the total shipping (both ways) is more than the wholesale cost of the product.
 

Baraendur said:
Their apology does raise an interesting point though, which is whether a reviewer should be telling people not to buy someone's product. I can understand slamming it for its shortcomings, and describing its contents, but shouldn't that last conclusion - the buying decision - be left to the person reading the review? If placed in a similar situation, how many of us wouldn't be hurt and offended?

Why shouldn't a reviewer be allowed to suggest whether or not they believe the product in question is truly worthy of being purchased?

That is why reviewers review products, is it not?

What is the difference between giving a product a score of "1", which literally means "Appalling", and actually stating with words that it should not be bought? If a product is rated a "1" or possibly "2", then should it be bought in the first place?

I would hope not.

Besides, nothing is _forcing_ a reader of a review to listen to the reviewer... how many times do you see critics rate movies as being so horrible that they wanted their money back and yet you, and many people that you know, went to said movie anyway?

Same thing here.
 

One more thing to note: Publishers should be made of sterner stuff than this. If your product gets a bad review, suck in your gut, lift your head high, and work your arse off to make the next product as best you can.

If anyone needs an example of a publisher that has done this very thing, go seek out Jason Parent of Ambient. Simon Collins wrote an unfavorable review of Librum Equitis and you can be assured that Jason didn't jump up and down in excitement and pride when he read it, *but* he did finish up Librum Equitis Volume 2 and send a free copy Simon's way.

Now that is how it should be done.
 


King_Stannis said:
I have a question that may or may not be relevent. If a reviewer here or at another place gives a product a negative review, why don't they send it back to the publisher? If you have no use for it (based on the review), is it not ethical, then, for you to go ahead and send it back?

Or is the reviewed copy the "payment" for doing the review, which might tread in dangerous territory.

IMO, Reviews are already "not impartial" in that they're written on a volunteer basis. At the standard professional freelance writing rate of 3 cents per word, a 500-1000 word review should be $15-$30 before taxes, which is often different from the retail price of the product.

Non-staff reviews by players who purchased the product risk a range from "fannish" to "axe to grind". Staff reviewers can still differ widely from site to site.

For some products I've reviewed, I'd **gladly** return them for a 3-cents-a-word check. The games sure weren't worth the time I spent writing!


Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
 

No it would not matter if it was my favorite company. I would still stop buying their product. Then again my favorite company doesnt go for cheap T&A to sell their products so I already know they are above AP's style of sales generation.


kenjib said:
Think about it differently. What if this were your favorite d20 company? What if Sword & Sorcery, Green Ronin, FFG, or Kenzer (insert your favorite company here) had done this? Would your reaction be different?
 

You know this how?

I see nothing in your post to say how you came by this information. All I see in your post is a jerk with an arrogant attitude that is slapping other posters down like a bunch of niave children.


Mistwell said:
I cannot believe the level of hypocracy, or naïveté, exressed in this thread.

Take down any single sci-fi or fantasy novel on your shelf. EVERY SINGLE ONE YOU TAKE DOWN WAS SENT FOR FREE TO A REVIEWER WHO WAS KNOWN TO GIVE GOOD REVIEWS TO THAT AUTHORS PRODUCTS. When a reviewer gave a bad review to one of those authors products, they were taken off the "free copy" list.

Maybe you didn't know that before (though it is not a hidden fact). But you do now.

Will you be now not buying any more sci-fi or fantasy novels? Or is it somehow okay in that industry, but not in the RPG industry?

In fact, with very rare exception (like Consumer Reports), that is the standard in MOST industries. I'm sorry you guys find that shocking, or unethical. But that is how free products sent out for reviews usually works, and I think you guys are hypocritical if you stop buying avalanche press books simply because of their new free-copy policy, but you don't take the same action when it comes to sci-fi books, fantasy books, most computer and electronics products, and most movies and TV shows even.
 

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