In praise of the rules lawyer

This is because, in a TRPG the rules are not the rules; the so-called rules are guidelines.
There's some truth to that, but there are many rules in a TRPG that aren't "guidelines" in any meaningful sense.

"A Medium longsword deals 1d8 damage," for example.
"A fireball allows a Reflex save for half damage," for another example.

My group has a strong preference for consistency in the rules. If it has been ruled in the past that oozes cannot be tripped, for example, we don't want the DM suddenly announcing: "Well, that's only a guideline. This encounter will be a lot more fun if you can trip oozes, so that's how it's going to work tonight." My group prefers that if oozes can't be tripped, then oozes can't be tripped; the rule is what it is, and that's that.

And where the issue hasn't come up before, my group appreciates having someone with vast knowledge of the rules and how they interact with each other, who can advise them against adopting interpretations that may lead to problems later.
 
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I have a rules lawer. He happens to actually be a lawyer. I would put him in the category of rules expert because he does not argue. Once the DM has spoken he moves on. His actual talent is his ability to frame an argument so that his point seems to be the most logical and satisfactory.

It's frickin' magic like some sort of diplomacy ray. I catch myself nodding stupidly. The moment he leaves it's like the magic wears off and I'm like...HEY!
You have been the subject to a Charm Person spell.




The important distinction here is the difference between "rules lawyer" and "rules expert." The rules lawyer argues for his definition of the rules regardless of the DM's word.

I am happy to praise the rules lawyer when he isn't there; his absence makes the game run much more smoothly.
 

If you define rules lawyer as only including the negative aspects, then you remove anything that could be praiseworthy. I consider a rules lawyer to be someone who knows the rules and the various interpretations thereof, and prefers for the rules to be used properly.

I think that last part is an important distinction between the expert and the lawyer. The expert is a repository of knowledge; the lawyer is an advocate. Some lawyers advocate on a fairly nonpartisan basis, pushing for a "fair" interpretation of the rules regardless of which side it favors. Others advocate for "their" side and figure the other side can fend for itself.

In general, I find that the nonpartisan approach works better as a long-term strategy, even if your goal is to gain advantage for your side. By showing yourself to be fair-minded, you gain credibility with the DM, which is helpful when you really need a ruling to go your way. You don't want to set up an adversarial dynamic when the other side's lawyer is also the judge. :)
 

I think that last part is an important distinction between the expert and the lawyer. The expert is a repository of knowledge; the lawyer is an advocate. Some lawyers advocate on a fairly nonpartisan basis, pushing for a "fair" interpretation of the rules regardless of which side it favors. Others advocate for "their" side and figure the other side can fend for itself.

In general, I find that the nonpartisan approach works better as a long-term strategy, even if your goal is to gain advantage for your side. By showing yourself to be fair-minded, you gain credibility with the DM, which is helpful when you really need a ruling to go your way. You don't want to set up an adversarial dynamic when the other side's lawyer is also the judge. :)

IME, at least when it comes to players and DMs that don't like the rules lawyer, being an impartial rules lawyer just makes everyone not like you. The whole irritation at pointing out flaws in general, magnified by the dislike for your arguments that hurt them tends to outweigh any delight from when they help.
 

I'm a rules lawyer myself. Rather thankless "job," I have to say. Even when you're totally 100% right on caling the DM on a mistake, even when you call him on it politely, even when it's to the benefit of someone else in the party, I've gotten the evil eye. God forbid when I try to protect my own character's interests with the rules I thought we were using when I signed up for the game.

OK, I've only a head to help with on your voodoo doll, but I won't let that deter me - I'll use extra pointy pins :eek:

Not at all sure that anything is 100% right and I'm fairly sure that no one can be completely right in a game designed to have moveable goalposts. If I had to choose a 'right' I'd opt for the consensus at the table.
 

There's some truth to that, but there are many rules in a TRPG that aren't "guidelines" in any meaningful sense.

"A Medium longsword deals 1d8 damage," for example.
"A fireball allows a Reflex save for half damage," for another example.

My group has a strong preference for consistency in the rules. If it has been ruled in the past that oozes cannot be tripped, for example, we don't want the DM suddenly announcing: "Well, that's only a guideline. This encounter will be a lot more fun if you can trip oozes, so that's how it's going to work tonight." My group prefers that if oozes can't be tripped, then oozes can't be tripped; the rule is what it is, and that's that.

And where the issue hasn't come up before, my group appreciates having someone with vast knowledge of the rules and how they interact with each other, who can advise them against adopting interpretations that may lead to problems later.

I am, as ever, teasing above :) but your game is short-circuiting the rules lawyering by arriving at a shared, and then consistent, interpretation. That's maybe quite a bit different to pointing at the rules and saying 'do it this way that suits me, eh, I mean the rules demand that we . . .'

Sounds like when your group meets something new you fit it into your game rather than reshaping your game to fit around the something new. This approach is, possibly, more consistent than rules lawyering which leaves a question mark hanging over the rule until the next time it comes round and the whole thing gets dredged up again. By negotiating your rules you probably get the best of consistency and player choice, so if you wanted variant oozes I'm thinking you'd introduce them and offer an explanation for them - maybe by discussion in advance, maybe by showing the PCs the lab where they were created first.

So, I like the guidelines label, because if everyone round the table agrees that a D8 is not a good measure of what a medium longsword delivers compared to other weapons, or you want to ratchet up damage across the whole weapons' system, an RPG says go ahead, make it 2D6 in your game.

I can add that I have an attitudinal problem here as a result of playing a deliberately experimental 'guidelines' game which encourages customisation and 'entertainment' mechanics.

E.g. the 'standard' weapons available to tribes/ races have grouped values, i.e. broadly similar weapons cause similar damage. Immediate 'wtf? isn't that a bit dull'. Not necessarily, there are plenty of variants available too, but there's a core set of similar weapons that helps new players to grasp the basics and focus on a system of bonuses, multipliers and other combat options. As a result, a new player is coaxed not towards 'do I use my D8 Longsword or my D8+2 Mace?', but towards 'can I use a backstab, do I have non-combat options, am I on a cumulative spell bonus?' and 'how happy am I going to be if I roll 12 on 2D6 whatever I do.'

At the same time, changing the damage a longsword causes or quickly typing in new values to differentiate more weapons by damage would be the preferred choice for any group that preferred those options.
 

I haven't found a heavy rules lawyer as you described useful (one who makes us look everything up, and to that, I'd add gets creative on his interpretations as well.)

But I do find a rules savvy player very useful. We tend to move to the latest WOTC rule edition which means few of us are masters of the rules. A player who has really studied the rules and can help find a reference can be quite useful.

So, no to the pejorative sense of rules lawyer and yes to the helpful lawyer. On that latter point, while I'm not afraid to make stuff up as I go, I find it simpler to stick with the rules where possible and the helpful lawyer can make that easier.
 
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No, rules lawyers aren't helpful.

Players who know the rules and can remind people of them, but who never argue with the DM that THEIR way is either appropriate, better, or "correct", ARE helpful.
 

So, I like the guidelines label, because if everyone round the table agrees that a D8 is not a good measure of what a medium longsword delivers compared to other weapons, or you want to ratchet up damage across the whole weapons' system, an RPG says go ahead, make it 2D6 in your game.
I've never known any "rules lawyer" who got bent out of shape over a house rule. What upsets us is when the rules are changed without notice, and if I choose a longsword for my weapon with the expectation that it deals 1d8 damage (because that's what the rulebook says) only to find out later that this particular DM thinks 1d4 damage is a "better measure," I'm not going to agree with him that 1d8 is just a guideline.
 

I keep a 25-belt clip for my N-strike Vulcan for any rules lawyers when they show up.

Rule experts, I don't mind. Rule lawyers, I can do without. It's one reason I've been finding myself drifting away from 3.5/Pathfinder to stuff like Savage Worlds.

I, myself, have tried to be a rule expert for the games I play, but I'm sure I've slipped over the line from time to time. It's a good idea to know the rules, and a godsend to know when to throw them out.
 

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