D&D 5E Inappropriate breasts on female monsters

[Elf Witch]

I am a female gamer I like realistic style of art. So I don't like dragon boobs because dragons don't nurse babies so why have them. I think dragons should be drawn gender neutral making it hard to tell just what sex they are. I feel that way about most lizard type creatures. Now if they are humanoids or mammals that is different.

I do have a peeve that some gamers try and lump all female gamers as being a hive mind we are not we run the gamut the same as male players when it comes to things.

 

[DMZ2112]

Thri-kreen (which yes, I've played) are an existing D&D player race with no real comparison to human sexual features. Lizardmen are another (though the name biases the issue).

And I think it's great that these species are options for you. I know people for whom they are not, because they are too alien, which is really the crux of this entire discussion.

I'm not sure if you're intentionally rigging up a straw man or not, but the question wasn't whether or not characters should have any sexual characteristics; it was about appropriate sexual characteristics. Nobody has said that elven women shouldn't have breasts.

That's not exactly what I'm saying. I picked the elf because it's a race that already has a bad rap for femininity in certain circles. The fact that they are mammals is irrelevant. Let's take another example and consider that the PHB says dragonborn males have spiked hemipenes. That's potentially biologically accurate but it is going to weird people out. I understand why a female reptilian character not having breasts might weird people out, despite it being biologically accurate.

Does that make more sense?

The presence of breasts on reptilians and constructs in D&D artwork still doesn't bother me, though.

Oddly, it does kind of bother me, and it always has. But I fully understand why it was done, so I don't bother railing against it.

 

[nomotog]

It bothers me with dragonborn, so when I play one I tend to go for one that looks more lizard like.

Udders would just look silly on a minotaurs . I mean a minotaurs is meant to be this big strong beast. Udders kind of ruin that.

 

[Talath]

I am a female gamer I like realistic style of art. So I don't like dragon boobs because dragons don't nurse babies so why have them. I think dragons should be drawn gender neutral making it hard to tell just what sex they are. I feel that way about most lizard type creatures. Now if they are humanoids or mammals that is different.

I do have a peeve that some gamers try and lump all female gamers as being a hive mind we are not we run the gamut the same as male players when it comes to things.

I agree that women as a group should not be represented as having one position. Furthermore, I feel that the decision of whether non-mammalian races have breasts should be left up to the player, in order that every player can represent themselves as they wish. Normally I would say character issues are between the DM and the player, but I don't feel that DMs should have much (if any) say in how a player represents facets of a characters identity, especially involving gender presentation, orientation, and so on.

 

[Hussar]

[QU OTE=nomotog;6394103]It bothers me with dragonborn, so when I play one I tend to go for one that looks more lizard like.

Utters would just look silly on a minotaurs . I mean a minotaurs is meant to be this big strong beast. Utters kind of ruin that.[/QUOTE]

You say that utters udderly ruin the look.

 

[Thank Dog]

Visual masculine cues include pronounced musculature, a V-shaped shoulder/chest/waist structure, and a host of facial stuff that I'm not going to list. The minotaurs, even the 4e ones, definitely track as humanesque in proportion and structure. An upright bovine would have a massively protruding sternum.

Well that's just gender prejudice. Bishōnen males everywhere are now offended. You have offended Justin Bieber and 90% of the Japanese male population.

I am a female gamer I like realistic style of art. So I don't like dragon boobs because dragons don't nurse babies so why have them. I think dragons should be drawn gender neutral making it hard to tell just what sex they are. I feel that way about most lizard type creatures. Now if they are humanoids or mammals that is different.

I think people are relying too heavily on the assumptions that are borne of a very vague and mostly osmosis based understanding of reptilian and mammalian biology. I mean, if you're going to use "reptiles don't lactate" as a reason to hate on dragon-boobs, then you should probably actually understand the evolution of lactation. There are birds and fish that lactate. OMG! And there are mammals which lay eggs. NOWAI! Mammals and reptiles are evolutionary branches within the same tree and simply evolved different methods of gestation. Lactation is believed to have evolved as a means to keep eggs moist. Wrap that concept around yah noggin.

So, really, ultimately, realistically, the entire debate is kinda silly. Dragonboobs are just as legitimate as dragonborn females without boobs. Neither is "realistic" since dragonborn don't exist. And if they did, and they evolved from dragons, then they could've done so in a way that quite legitimately led to lactation, and even if they didn't... magic!

 

[Li Shenron]

Does it bug you when creatures that logically shouldn't have breasts are illustrated with them in D&D art? In the previous edition, Dragonborn, Minotaurs and Shard born females were all given breasts, even though Dragonborn are reptilian, Minotaurs would logically have udders, and Shard born aren't even biological. I think monsters and PC races should only be drawn with breasts if: 1) they would logically have them, or 2) they are traditionally depicted as having them. What do you think...?

Yes it bothers me, both because of a gender-inequality underlying problem, and because it demonstrates a serious lack of both reason and fantasy.

 

[SoulsFury]

Every time I see a thread like this, all I can think of is that the OP must have never played D&D with females before. Women want boobs on everything. Men want boobs on everything. Why can't dragonborn have boobs? Thats like saying how can dragons fly because there is no such thing as dragons.

 

[Elf Witch]

Well that's just gender prejudice. Bishōnen males everywhere are now offended. You have offended Justin Bieber and 90% of the Japanese male population.


I think people are relying too heavily on the assumptions that are borne of a very vague and mostly osmosis based understanding of reptilian and mammalian biology. I mean, if you're going to use "reptiles don't lactate" as a reason to hate on dragon-boobs, then you should probably actually understand the evolution of lactation. There are birds and fish that lactate. OMG! And there are mammals which lay eggs. NOWAI! Mammals and reptiles are evolutionary branches within the same tree and simply evolved different methods of gestation. Lactation is believed to have evolved as a means to keep eggs moist. Wrap that concept around yah noggin.

So, really, ultimately, realistically, the entire debate is kinda silly. Dragonboobs are just as legitimate as dragonborn females without boobs. Neither is "realistic" since dragonborn don't exist. And if they did, and they evolved from dragons, then they could've done so in a way that quite legitimately led to lactation, and even if they didn't... magic!

Well my knowledge comes from breeding reptiles and while I know that there are some that don't follow the standard of laying eggs and not nursing most do as the same with mammals the main definition of a mammal is a warm blooded animal that gives live birth and nurse its offspring and yes there are exceptions.

Half the discussions we have here could be classified as silly since we are dealing with a fantasy game. But that is part of the enjoyment having discussions like should dragons have boobs.

Personally I hate the argument that you can't have realism in a fantasy game it is old and trite.

 

[Henrix]

Personally I hate the argument that you can't have realism in a fantasy game it is old and trite.

Indeed. Fantasy without realism would just be weird and unrecognisable. That is just a very cheap excuse to not have to think.



I think that anything that can make girl gamers feel less excluded is good. Women are underrepresented as it is.
If breasts help some I'm all for it, it is a very evident clue to gender for humans.

(A preponderance of buxom girls with weird and unpractical clothes do bother me, though. And it does bother many of my women gamer friends. The new PHB is rather good in that respect.)

As is the fact that so many of the female roles and monsters are clearly oriented just toward men, as seducers or sexual predators.