Increased magic across the board?

[Mallus]

I don't like that either, for much the same reason.

Don't all characters get magical powers already in the form of items?

Why are a dizzying array of enchanted accouterments more palatable then inherent talents or boons?

 

[Mallus]

I like that there are non-magic characters in the game...

You've played in games where characters didn't use magic (items)?

In D&D 3.0+, magic items constitute a point buy extraordinary powers system, just like a superhero system a la Champions or Mutants and Masterminds, except the powers are bought with an in-game resources called 'gold', rather than a metagame resource like 'power points' or 'character points'.

I think it was Monte Cook was the first 3.0 designer to remark on this publicly.

 

[Azgulor]

You've played in games where characters didn't use magic (items)?

In D&D 3.0+, magic items constitute a point buy extraordinary powers system, just like a superhero system a la Champions or Mutants and Masterminds, except the powers are bought with an in-game resources called 'gold', rather than a metagame resource like 'power points' or 'character points'.

I think it was Monte Cook was the first 3.0 designer to remark on this publicly.

I don't know about Olgar, but yep, I do it all the time. The magic item glut is one of the things I've always hated about D&D. It & Vancian magic pushed me to other RPGs years ago. With the introduction of OGL games, I embraced D20, but even in my D&D campaigns, I leave the magic item nonsense at the door. They still exist, but nowhere near the levels suggested in the core books.

 

[Mercule]

New WotC article about the Martial Power Source.

I find this to be a very soothing article. If it means what I think it means, I will be quite happy with martial characters in 4E.

 

[Mallus]

They still exist, but nowhere near the levels suggested in the core books.

Sure, you can run D&D with fewer magic items in players hands, though it's pretty clear the system wasn't really designed with that in mind (it plays hell with the balance between classes). Then again, I'm sure the way I play D&D wasn't what they had in mind, either...

But your PC's can still acquire and use magic, right? My point was that non-magic using PC's are virtually nonexistent after a handful of levels.

I have trouble calling a fighter who flies around via magic boots and wings trolls with his flaming sword 'non-magical'...

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Perhaps is magic is increased across the board, it will be done in such a way that it will acutally make it easier to play a low-magic campaign. By increasing magic across the board, perhaps it leads to everyone relying on it to about the same extent, so then you can knock it back and know that you affect everything more evenly.

 

[Nebulous]

I don't think that by more magic they meant something like it, more probably that more classes (maybe even Fighters) will have access to "magical powers".

I really don't like the sound of that either. I think 3rd edition had too much magic as it was. I really don't want mundane fighter classes blessed with new "magical" abilities so that they can stay toe to toe with the spellcasters. Of course, like anything else, 4e will get houseruled until it's the kind of game i want to play.

 

[fuindordm]

I don't mind the classes having cool abilities, even if they border on the supernatural. I loved the Knight, for example, and would cry tears of joy if they provided a viable Noble class.

3rd edition did annoy me for the tendency to give away spellcasting so freely. In my mind, that should be the most difficult form of magic to perform and available only to a few, highly specialized classes.

D&D really needs mundane rangers, assassins, monk, fighters, rogues, nobles, etc... there should be lots and lots of party roles that the "common adventurer" can fill. Magic is such an important part of any campaign setting, it simply shouldn't be the default.

Giving fighters per-encounter combat maneuvers, however, doesn't bother me. Is that hypocritical? Perhaps, but granting a class spellcasting has broader implications on the campaign world.

 

[fuindordm]

The 'Martial Power Source' column is indeed promising. I would hope, however, that fighter and rogue are not the only martial classes!

If we had only eight classes in 4th, I would like to see at least half of them mundane. For example, the following selection would make me very happy:

Fighter, 'The Athlete': highest combat maneuvers, with talent trees for armor use, rage...
Rogue, 'The Expert': highest skill use, plus talent trees to get even more out of skills
Warlord, 'The Leader': social skill use, plus knight's challenge, call in favors, inspire courage.
Ranger, 'The Scout': sneak/perception skill use, nature focus, ambush, favored enemy.

Cleric, 'The Protector': 'vanilla' divine magic
Druid, 'The Mystic': divine magic with strong natural flavor
Wizard, 'The Know-it-all': 'vanilla' arcane magic
Sorcerer, 'The Destroyer': arcane magic with strong infernal flavor (i.e., warlock)

Mage Blade, 'The Arcane Fighter': (Arcana Unearthed has the best I've seen)
Paladin, 'The Divine Fighter'

The last three classes are for those who want the feeling of old-school multiclassing, where your highest level spells are not too far behind the rest of the party. In 3e terms, I would like to see them top out at 7th level spells.

What about the other classes? Barbarian is a kind of fighter (and definitely falls into the athlete role). Monk is too culture-specific for the PH. Bard might make it in as an analogue for the old triple-classed character.

 

[Maldor]

I really don't like the sound of that either. I think 3rd edition had too much magic as it was. I really don't want mundane fighter classes blessed with new "magical" abilities so that they can stay toe to toe with the spellcasters. Of course, like anything else, 4e will get houseruled until it's the kind of game i want to play.

not me you can never have eough magic in a high fantesy game
to much Magic in D&D id like to much technology in star trek
if i want mundune i'd civil war reanact