Inherent bonus?

[UltimaGabe]

However, the +5 cap still applies. Why? Well, that's just how it works. Can only 'mutate' so far.

That's where I see the writer's flaw. Wish is supposedly supposed to be the most powerful spell in existence- hence the HUGE xp cost, and the extremely huge chance of failure. And, as a result of casting the most powerful spell existence, you can only give yourself a +5 to an ability score. That's it. And that's from spending 25,000 xp- which, under the standard xp system, is more than it takes to go from 20th to 21st level.

Looking at mythology, and fairy tales, and stories of genies and lamps, if a person said, "I wish to be Super Strong!" the genie didn't just say, "Okay. You can now lift twenty pounds more than you could before. I can do that four more times, and after that your muscles will be as big as they can get." Wish IS the most powerful spell, remember. It shouldn't have a cap.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Inherent Intelligence Bonuses DO increase skill points, for example.

So does any bonus to Intelligence that doesn't specify otherwise.

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Looking at mythology, and fairy tales, and stories of genies and lamps, if a person said, "I wish to be Super Strong!" the genie didn't just say, "Okay. You can now lift twenty pounds more than you could before. I can do that four more times, and after that your muscles will be as big as they can get." Wish IS the most powerful spell, remember. It shouldn't have a cap.

Actually, I've House Ruled Wish and Limited Wish into Mana Control and Lesser Mana Control. Leaving the word "Wish" associated with the fairytale, Alladdin-type wishes of yore.

 

[UltimaGabe]

So does any bonus to Intelligence that doesn't specify otherwise.

There's really only one other Intelligence bonus listed in the rulebooks, and it specifies such.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There's really only one other Intelligence bonus listed in the rulebooks, and it specifies such.

You won't find a rule that states "Enhancement bonuses to Intelligence do not grant extra skill points." You'll find a rule that states that Fox's Cunning does not grant extra skill points, and you'll find a rule that states that a Headband of Intellect does not grant extra skill points.

You won't find such a rule for an Ioun Stone.

Especially if you don't need to sleep for some reason, and thus never need to take the stone down, you always have the +2 enhancement bonus... and since the stone does not use Fox's Cunning as a prerequisite, and does not state that it does not grant skill points, there's no reason it should not.

-Hyp.

 

[pyk]

You won't find a rule that states "Enhancement bonuses to Intelligence do not grant extra skill points." You'll find a rule that states that Fox's Cunning does not grant extra skill points, and you'll find a rule that states that a Headband of Intellect does not grant extra skill points.

You won't find such a rule for an Ioun Stone.

Especially if you don't need to sleep for some reason, and thus never need to take the stone down, you always have the +2 enhancement bonus... and since the stone does not use Fox's Cunning as a prerequisite, and does not state that it does not grant skill points, there's no reason it should not.

-Hyp.

Which is an oversight. This means that if a character creates a magic item that increases Intelligence, which does not use Fox's Cunning, and is not a headband of intellect, said character may increase skill points?

As for ioun stone, what happens to those earned extra skill points if said ioun stone is whacked out of orbit by an attacking creature? Or, if said ioun stone is carried into an Antimagic Field? Hit with Mordenkainen's Disjuntion? Character loses enough HP to fall unconsious? Too many variables on that item to account for, which have the same variables as a headband of intellect, to say that the two function differently. Especially as it is much easier for the ioun stone to become unusable for any amount of time than a headband.

 

[Diirk]

I was sure there was a rule somewhere that stated only permanent changes to a character's int score would give him extra skill points, but I can't find it, so maybe I was mistaken... that would be the simplest way to handle it tho. Hence wishing for higher int would give you more skill points, but that ioun stone wouldn't.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Which is an oversight. This means that if a character creates a magic item that increases Intelligence, which does not use Fox's Cunning, and is not a headband of intellect, said character may increase skill points?

Any new item is subject to DM approval. If the player proposes his character create an item that increases Intelligence, the DM is free to add "This does not provide extra skill points."

If he chooses not to do so, then yes, the Intelligence gained by the character will make him eligible for extra skill points.

As for ioun stone, what happens to those earned extra skill points if said ioun stone is whacked out of orbit by an attacking creature?

Nothing.

Skill points are not based on what your Intelligence is now. Your modifiers to Knowledge, Search, etc, are, but not your ranks.

Skill points are based on what your Intelligence was at the time you levelled.

... ah.

Okay, new information There's a new passage in the Level Advancement section of the PHB (which is omitted from the SRD) that didn't appear in 3.5, that specifies that temporary changes to Int (such as ability damage or enhancement bonuses from spells or items) don't affect skill points.

I take it back - an ioun stone won't affect skill points.

(I hate it when crucial rules passages aren't in the SRD!)

So now we're back to "An inherent bonus may be permanent, but it's still a bonus"

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I was sure there was a rule somewhere that stated only permanent changes to a character's int score would give him extra skill points, but I can't find it, so maybe I was mistaken...

Yeah, found it - PHB p58.

-Hyp.

 

[glass]

My ruling would be that you keep inherent bonuses to Int, Wis and Cha, loose inherent bonuses to Str, Dex and Con. After all, when polymorphed you have your usual mind, in a different body.

That is just my gut feeling, though, without any real rules support.


glass.