D&D 5E Initial D&D Next Releases Showing Up on Barnes & Noble Website

[DMZ2112]

I'm not sure how you can GM 4e without skill challenge rules and the p 42/trap/monster charts - none of which is in the PHB or MM.

Well, I don't run skill challenges (at least, not according to the RAW), traps represent a very specific style of play, you can eyeball monster difficulty from the MM, and I've never appreciated the "genius" of page 42.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I'm not sure how you can GM 4e without skill challenge rules and the p 42/trap/monster charts - none of which is in the PHB or MM.

Skill challenges were problematical at the best of times in many of my 4E games and that awesome chart was printed on the the DM Screen - so yeah you didn't really need the DMG (although if you didn't use the pg 42 chart you really made things hard for yourself when winging it!!)

 

[GravyFingerz]

Guys guys guys. What if the boxed set is heavily discounted like the original 3e PHB was because it contains what you need to create characters and run a low level campaign and is for the new people? And the PHB contains all the levels and classes and races and stuff and is for the experienced? Why can't a starter box be both cheap and have almost everything?

 

[GX.Sigma]

Guys guys guys. What if the boxed set is heavily discounted like the original 3e PHB was because it contains what you need to create characters and run a low level campaign and is for the new people? And the PHB contains all the levels and classes and races and stuff and is for the experienced? Why can't a starter box be both cheap and have almost everything?

As I said upthread, the 4e Red Box was the same price, and had a bunch of stuff (maps, tokens, cards) that 5e doesn't need. It seems logical that they can remove those, increase the page counts of the booklets, and maybe even add something else like a DM screen, and end up at the same price.

 

[innerdude]

$49.99 MSRP for a PHB . . . .

I don't know what to think about that.

On the one hand, it's entirely reasonable, depending on the depth and quality of content, quality of artwork, and scope of rules. The Pathfinder Core Rulebook is the same price, and I didn't bat an eye at that.

That said . . . there definitely needs to be a unique value proposition for making the switch. The choice of spending $50 on an RPG rule system that I'll maybe get around to playing sometime in 2016 or 2017 . . . or spending $50 on expansion packs for the Lord of the Rings Living Card Game, or Dominion, or one of the many fantastic campaign settings for Savage Worlds, or the Rivendell expansion for The One Ring when it finally comes out . . . is hardly a difficult one.

 

[delericho]

As I said upthread, the 4e Red Box was the same price, and had a bunch of stuff (maps, tokens, cards) that 5e doesn't need. It seems logical that they can remove those, increase the page counts of the booklets, and maybe even add something else like a DM screen, and end up at the same price.

I will be very surprised if the 5e box doesn't include dice, one or two maps (probably one, double-sided), and tokens. Because although the game doesn't need those things, WotC will probably be aiming to sell their new box in bigger toy/game stores (that is, not just the speciality FLGS). To do so, they'll want it to look more like a game to people who are not au-fait with RPGs... and, of course, games have boards.

That said, I doubt that the tokens, at least, were a major cost in the 4e set - they looked very much like reuse of existing artwork and/or token sets that they were going to print anyway for the "Monster Vault". So, since almost all of the work was being done anyway, and since they probably had a huge print run, those were probably reasonably cheap.

Actually, I also don't think the size of the 4e booklets was too terrible, I just don't think it was used very well at all. So, a better organisation of material, and a better selection of material, may well allow them to fit in enough stuff to cover 'basic' character creation, and play through levels 1-3. And given that that's what the old Red Box gave us, that's surely enough.

 

[delericho]

$50 makes sense to me for a really good core rulebook. Whether it will be really good remains to be seen. But high quality, good rules, dense text, and good art are all factors.

It really depends on what you're getting for your money. If the book resembles the 4e PHB, then anything over $40 is excessive (the 4e PHB was $35, which adjusts for inflation to $38ish). Heck, even the 4e PHB is pushing it, given the fairly large font size, the wide margins, and the frankly excessive use of whitespace.

If, however, the book resembles the Pathfinder Core Rulebook or the Numenera main book, then $50 is entirely reasonable - those are both pretty thick books with decent art, and suitably dense text. (And, given RPGs that have released in the last few years, this is more what I'm expecting anyway.)

But one of the real oddities of RPG pricing is that you can't actually judge the value of the offering by the format of the offering itself. A book priced at $100 might be absurdly good value, while one priced at $10 might be a total rip-off. And the quality of the artwork, the covers used, the text density... even the quality of the writing are all largely incidental to the value of the thing. The 3.5e Core Rulebooks would have been great value to me at almost any price, because I played the hell out of that edition.

I could see the PHB priced at $50, with the DMG and MM at $40 each. $130 sounds better than $150.

My concern is less with the price of the thing, as such, and more with the sheer weight of rules. A $50 PHB suggests 500+ pages, and if you add to that a DMG and an MM as well... well, I feel it's just getting too big. (Having said that, the possibility I hadn't considered was that the "PHB" may, in fact, be the game, with everything else being strictly optional. In which case, I would be very happy indeed.)

But, when it comes down to it, the question is less "what does this cost", and more "how much will I use it?" So...

I just want it to be good.

Amen.

 

[N'raac]

All of this is true, but what concerns me (somewhat) is the potential lost on-ramps to the hobby. Amazon et al are great for getting all manner of products, provided you already know what you want. But if not, they're unlikely to hook a new player.

That was something that the FLGS (and, indeed, the printed magazines) did, at least to an extent - they announced to the world, "Hey! We're here!" And both WotC and Paizo do at least some stuff to try to tie into that. Knock out those supports, and it becomes at least a bit harder to get into the hobby.

Good for the grognard, bad for the newbie, for sure. The question is how many are prepared to pay a higher price to subsidize recruiting new players. WoTC can, as this thread comments, force that. They can bump the price of the PHB to fund low, or no, margins on a mass-marketed beginner's box.

But we also choose to buy our new books online for the discount, rather than at the FLGS for a higher price. Amazon and B&N don't market to new gamers, run game demos, provide gaming space or provide a place for gamers to meet other gamers. Some FLGS do. Others don't. That extra space costs them money too, so maybe they have to choose between space for gamers to game, and a 5% greater discount for regular customers.

Compare the number of gamers who go to conventions with the number that work on organizing conventions. Hobby participants are a lot more numerous than hobby supporters - and that's not just true of gaming.

Yes, but if you have a restaurant that increases their prices because they serve all food on a golden plate then I would choose to eat someplace else. I never remembered there being a survey question about increasing the quality of the art. Good art is no substition for good rules either.

Pathfinder has great art and great content while keeping their books reasonably priced. I don't need the top artist out there to draw for an RPG I plan to buy.

For what it is worth, I will gladly pay and extra $10 for a product with excellent art.

Art is a great example of an "extra" whose value varies widely between consumers. Of course, nice art, especially nice cover art, may attract attention from someone who isn't familiar with the game.

 

[DM Howard]

That's an interesting take and don't forget the success of Lords of Waterdeep (and its expansion). Basically, a boardgame that could be used as a gateway game to D&D but stands on its own as a boardgame. I think that would do quite well, if the success of the other boardgames is any sign.

http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Basic-Game/dp/0786934093

They've done, essentially, what he's talking about before. I loved this set, and would buy one like it for D&DN in a heart beat.

 

[DMZ2112]

http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons-Dragons-Basic-Game/dp/0786934093

They've done, essentially, what he's talking about before. I loved this set, and would buy one like it for D&DN in a heart beat.

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/1543/dragon-quest

No AdventureVision video, no sale!

[video=youtube;4l4oiObvwR4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l4oiObvwR4[/video]

(Yay, YouTube!)