Input wanted on my Bard-barian (Core only)

[Vraister]

I would start with Barbarian.
He is going to be a tank so the 6 HP come in handy and he loses only 6 skill points. With his high int and the human bonus skill he probably can live with that.

Vraister

 

[two]

Thanks for all the input. The general consensus seems to be that Bard 4/Barbarian 1 is the way to go, so I'm looking at that now. I fear that I'm going to be woefully short of skill points for all the things I want/need.

For feats, what about Power Attack, Weapon Focus (Greatsword), Improved Bull Rush?

Calypso

You are so hurting on feats I would forget about WF: Greatsword and Improved bull Rush. IBR isn't used that often as far as I can tell. Personally, I'm sick to death of the greatsword. Plus, you should use a shield. Because a shield with the +6 NA you get with alter self can get you a very acceptable AC for the level.

For feats -- oh who knows. You are melee, after all. You could do the disarm/trip/sunder thing, or be a barbarian with the standard power attack/cleave/something else. I dunno. I'll maybe post a sample build in a second.

 

[calypso15]

You are so hurting on feats I would forget about WF: Greatsword and Improved bull Rush. IBR isn't used that often as far as I can tell. Personally, I'm sick to death of the greatsword. Plus, you should use a shield. Because a shield with the +6 NA you get with alter self can get you a very acceptable AC for the level.

For feats -- oh who knows. You are melee, after all. You could do the disarm/trip/sunder thing, or be a barbarian with the standard power attack/cleave/something else. I dunno. I'll maybe post a sample build in a second.

Heh... that should've been Greataxe, sorry. I make a point of never using greatswords. You really think a shield is the way to go? 3.5 Powerattack is awfully nice.

 

[two]

here is a scimitar user bardbarian

Who doesn't use a shield, but uses alter self as a shield.

This build requires mucho casting of alter self, like, all the time. It does last 40 min. per casting, however, so pre-casting is a real option I hope some of the time.

I don't know how the 'to hits' work with the trog form and multiattack precisely -- somebody else needs to advise on that one!

Level 5 Melee Bard-o-Doom

Human, 30 point buy. Barbarian1/Bard4

Str:18 (13 points) + inherent bonus
Con: 14 (6 points)
Dex: 14 (6 points)
Wis:8 (0 points)
Ch: 13 (5 points)
Int: 8 (0 points)

Feats: Improved toughness, Power attack, Dodge, Multiattack* (from trog in trog form)

Hit Points: 12 + 16 + 10 + 5 = 43

Magic: +2 armor, +1 scimitar. 5 x-tra scrolls of alter self.

Tactics: Always cast alter self on first round of battle. Or buff it up well in advance when you suspect something. It lasts a LONG time so don’t be shy. If you can, inspire courage and get into position for a full attack the following round.

After "Altering Self" into Troglodyte form, this Bard can have a typical AC of: +7 (+2 mithral breastplate) +2 (dex) + 6 (Troglodyte natural armor) + 1 (dodge) = 24. OK for level 5. Any other additional AC boosts will pay off big time.

After "inspiring" the party, the Bard can hit and hurt in melee:

[bard uses scimitar in 2 hands for primary attack, then drops a hand for the claw and bites. I assume this is legal. ]

+4 (BAB) +1 (song) + 4 (strength) +1 (+1 scimitar) = +9 to hit with a scimitar as a primary attack, for 1d6 + 10 damage. (does this have a penalty when using it with the Trog multi attack?) like –2 to hit?

Then the claw-bite followup, at +7/+7 (-2 penalty only due to multi-attack) for 1d4+3 each.

Total: +9 (* maybe +7)/+6/+6 at level 5, for 1d6+ 10/1d4 + 3/1d4 +3.

Hit points are OK but not great thanks to constitution and Improved Toughness. AC is OK, overall attack sequence at level 5 excellent. Nobody else gets 3 attacks, after all.

Tactics: Use tumble skill to flank whenever possible (tumble skill is only +8, so watch out), converting the +2 flanking bonus into +2 damage via power attack.

GRANTED: It's not overwhelming. But it compares favorably with ye olde boring raging barbarian w/a greatsword. Plus is lots more fun.

 

[Diirk]

I would start with Barbarian.
He is going to be a tank so the 6 HP come in handy and he loses only 6 skill points. With his high int and the human bonus skill he probably can live with that.

Vraister

Actually starting with barbarian would only give him 3 extra hp. And he doesn't lose just 6 skill points; he doesn't have all those nice bard skills as class skills for the first level, which makes playing catch up later a bit of a pain. Altho how much of a pain depends on whether you favour the barbarian or the bard skills more.

Uh.. I don't think you can claw in the same round as using a two hand weapon. Otherwise why not go the whole hog and hit with scimitar, drop one claw off to claw, put the claw back on and drop the other claw off and hit with that one too?

 

[Demoquin]

If you do go with the Pwer Attack route .. think about getting Leap Attack. It triples the damage on a Power Attack . Need jump skill though

 

[calypso15]

If you do go with the Pwer Attack route .. think about getting Leap Attack. It triples the damage on a Power Attack . Need jump skill though

Hmmm, where is that? I have max ranks in jump, plus I'm starting with some potions of Jump.

Calypso

 

[two]

Actually starting with barbarian would only give him 3 extra hp. And he doesn't lose just 6 skill points; he doesn't have all those nice bard skills as class skills for the first level, which makes playing catch up later a bit of a pain. Altho how much of a pain depends on whether you favour the barbarian or the bard skills more.

Uh.. I don't think you can claw in the same round as using a two hand weapon. Otherwise why not go the whole hog and hit with scimitar, drop one claw off to claw, put the claw back on and drop the other claw off and hit with that one too?

Honestly, I don't either. If you can, you can just use a big 2-handed weapon, not a scimitar, as well.

I guess don't play my build unless you have a firm grasp of the multi-attack drop-hand etc. rules, which I clearly don't.

 

[calypso15]

Okay, so now it is:

Human Barbarian 1/Bard 4

Stats: Str: 18 Dex: 14 Con: 16 Int:14 Wis: 13 Cha: 14
Saves: Fort: 7 Ref: 7 Wil: 6

HP: 41
AC: 19 (20 with Dodge, 26 with Trog, though I'm not sure I can justify turning into a Trog all the time).

Skills: Balance: +8, Concentration: +8, Handle Animal: +10, Intimidate: +10, Jump: +18, Knowledge(Arcana): +10, Listen: +9, Perform(Percussion): +9, Survival: +6, Tumble: +9

Feats: Power Attack, Improved Initiative, Dodge

Equipment: Battleaxe +1, Studded Leather +1, Heavy Darkwood Shield +1. (The mithral breastplate was too expensive, but I'll get it eventually. And I couldn't justify a chain shirt, theme-wise), Cloak of Resistance +1, Wand of Cure Light Wounds.

I'm also going to see if the DM would allow a Ring of Enlarge Person 3/day.

Calypso

 

[Bront]

Unless I'm smoking something naughty, mithral breastplate IS light armor, as is mithral chain.

I'm unfamiliar with Mithril Brestplate being light (Normal Brestplate Medium). I don't see it in the SRD, so must be from a different source book.