Inquisitive

[Quickleaf]

I updated the pdf with several new powers (it's now in the first post).

I understand reading through blocks of powers can be rather off-putting, so I'll dress it up more in the future. Unfortunately, I probably won't be able to playtest this class (the most important part) until August or thereabouts.

I could see Striker, with a dash of Controller, or vice versa, depending on how you go with the powers.

If you go Controller, I definitely see a tougher version of a Controller, with better defenses and higher HP, because the Inquisitive is in the midst of the action, rather than standing far back and blasting.

I really like the flavor, BTW.

Hey, glad you like the flavor. I took your suggestion about buffing up the hit points to be on par with the rogue. For now I'll call it a controller, but it'll probably end up some striker/controller hybrid.

Yes, I will echo the flavor is quite nice! There is a race bouncing around called a Dhampyr combined with this I get, Vampire hunter D, heheh.

Yeh the 4hp per level could be a problem though that would be a might fragile striker.

Vampire hunter is definitely what I'm going for. Actually just got ahold of an old Van Richten's guide from Ravenloft and lots of ideas to mine there.

 

[Quickleaf]

Bumping this thread with an update to the .pdf in the first post including new at-will powers.

Does anyone have sources of inspiration I could draw from to design powers?

 

[Mentat55]

A few thoughts from reading the PDF:

1. Why martial melee weapons? It seems the Inquisitive either focuses on alchemical items, crossbows, or gets proficiency in the spiked chain or man-catcher (presumably a superior weapon). Do swords, axes, and hammers really fit the archetype (honest question, I am uncertain)?

2. I really like canny positioning.

3. For iron shackler, does the inquisitive actually drop the spiked chain? If not, it might be better to say that the inquisitive cannot use the spiked chain to make attacks while the target is restrained (immobilized is redundant with restrained, I think). Also, I would probably stick with the Acrobatics vs. Reflex or Athletics vs. Fortitude mechanic for escaping grabs, for simplicity, and because breaking your inquisitive's spiked chain all the time is probably not cool (DC 15 + 1/2 level is not hard for a level appropriate brute to achieve on a Str check).

3. Penetrating Sight -- I wouldn't make this a mark, especially since that is the core mechanic for defenders. Instead, I would call it something else and stick with the mechanics you have there.

4. What is the inquisitive's primary attack stat? I saw powers that referenced Intelligence, Dexterity, Strength -- even an Intimidate vs. Will. If you want to go the two different stat options, that might be ok...but frankly I think one attack stat, with two possible secondary stats, is probably the way to go. And the class description at the beginning lists Charisma, Dexterity, and Intelligence, with no mention of Strength.

Personally, I think the flavor of the class favors Intelligence or Wisdom as a primary (being smart or perceptive, defeating your foes with your mind rather than brawn). Then keep one of those as a secondary, and add another secondary.

5. Either add another class feature (which might be too much), or modify the existing ability of canny positioning or the Inquisitive Techniques to use those secondary ability scores.

 

[Mentat55]

After some thought, I think Intelligence would make a good primary ability score, especially since this class is inspired by characters like Van Helsing, Sherlock Holmes, and Cadfael. This would have the added benefit of increasing the character's Reflex defense and AC (unless the inquisitive chooses to wear chainmail). Then the secondary ability scores would map to your two build names: Wis for the cunning inquisitive, Cha for intimidating inquisitive. In either case, the inquisitive also gets a good Will defense.

 

[Quickleaf]

Thanks for your feedback, Mentat55

1. Why martial melee weapons? It seems the Inquisitive either focuses on alchemical items, crossbows, or gets proficiency in the spiked chain or man-catcher (presumably a superior weapon). Do swords, axes, and hammers really fit the archetype (honest question, I am uncertain)?

I agree, though swords do fit the archetype, so I'll add Longsword and Shortsword instead of all military melee weapons. I'm tempted to add rapier to the list. Also I've removed chainmail proficiency.

2. I really like canny positioning.

I couldn't find a way to incorporate Intelligence into it, but I think it stands fine as is.

3. For iron shackler, does the inquisitive actually drop the spiked chain? If not, it might be better to say that the inquisitive cannot use the spiked chain to make attacks while the target is restrained (immobilized is redundant with restrained, I think). Also, I would probably stick with the Acrobatics vs. Reflex or Athletics vs. Fortitude mechanic for escaping grabs, for simplicity, and because breaking your inquisitive's spiked chain all the time is probably not cool (DC 15 + 1/2 level is not hard for a level appropriate brute to achieve on a Str check).

Good point, I changed this as you recommended.

3. Penetrating Sight -- I wouldn't make this a mark, especially since that is the core mechanic for defenders. Instead, I would call it something else and stick with the mechanics you have there.

Ok, changed it.

4. What is the inquisitive's primary attack stat? I saw powers that referenced Intelligence, Dexterity, Strength -- even an Intimidate vs. Will. If you want to go the two different stat options, that might be ok...but frankly I think one attack stat, with two possible secondary stats, is probably the way to go. And the class description at the beginning lists Charisma, Dexterity, and Intelligence, with no mention of Strength.

I agree. I was striving to make the powers unique and overdid it with the various abilities. Intelligence is the primary stat, and Wisdom or Charisma are the secondary stats.

In either case, the inquisitive also gets a good Will defense.

Agreed, changed it.

5. Either add another class feature (which might be too much), or modify the existing ability of canny positioning or the Inquisitive Techniques to use those secondary ability scores.

I think another class feature would be too much. I guess I could add little notes to the bottom of encounter powers which add Charisma or Wisdom modifiers to attack/damage/save penalties with the corresponding Inquisitive Technique. For example, Iron Shackler might add your Charisma modifier to your AC when you use the Warding Chain power.

 

[Mentat55]

Perhaps canny positioning should be an Intelligence + 2 vs. Will attack? It is pretty useful, and a minor action at-will at that. At 11th level, it could be Int +4, and at 21st level, Int +6.

You could add a small Wisdom or Charisma-based benefit to Alchemic Warrior, Iron Shackler, Man-catcher, and Piercing Bolt. Alchemic Warrior already has an Int-based benefit, perhaps that could be changed to Wisdom. Iron Shackler could give the grabbed opponent a penalty to escape equal to your Charisma modifier; Man-catcher could impose a penalty to attack rolls equal to your Charisma modifier as well. And Piercing Bolt could ignore resistances equal to half your level plus your Wisdom modifier.

 

[Quickleaf]

Great points, thanks!

I looked at penetrating sight again, and think that extending it to adjacent allies stretches credulity.

Anyhow, here's what I've done with Canny Positioning - I like it even better now.

Canny Positioning Inquisitive Feature
With calculating footwork, you manipulate the enemy’s position to your advantage.

At-Will ♦ Martial
Minor Action, Close burst 1
Target: All enemies within the burst
Attack: Intelligence +2 vs. Will
Hit: Slide the target one square, and you may switch places with the target if you wish. The burst moves with you as you hit, allowing you to maneuver through a group of foes. The maximum number of times you can switch places is equal to your Intelligence modifier.
Hit or Miss: All squares within the burst at your final location count as difficult terrain for your enemies until the end of your next turn.
At 11th level, increase your attack to Intelligence +4, and at 21st level to Intelligence +6.

 

[Siberys]

Why exactly have you listed that last part as Hit or Miss:? Why not Effect:? It is my understanding that that's how that'd be formatted, anyways.

 

[Quickleaf]

Good catch, Siberys.

I've been doing a lot of design but have little to show so far. Still here's an update with everything cleaned up a bit and couple new powers (see the first post).

It's interesting to be working on a class that is something of a frankenstein of archetypes... Sherlock Holmes, Batman, Brother Cadfael, the Shadow, the Witcher, Van Helsing...they're all in the pot together and I'm trying to make sense of it within the context of 4e. Fun but grueling.

I definitely have a lot more sympathy and respect for others who've made classes on these boards and the Wizards R&D folks too.

 

[Starfox]

Hi, I came here from the Martial Controller thread. I really like what I see in the PDF so far (not read the tread closely yet). But I have an issue with it. Could you change the permissions on the PDF so that its commentable? It much easier to make running comments as stickies in the PDF.

Edit: Hm, on further considerations, security setting seem to be set to allow this. I need to learn how to use this program...