Inspire Courage + Greatness + Heriocs

[Nifft]

I'm not sure what you want me to say. I'm of the opinion that bonus hit dice are hit dice, and behave as hit dice except where the text indicates they differ.

You're of the opinion that bonus hit dice aren't hit dice, and don't behave as hit dice except where the text indicates they do.

I don't see how that's reconcilable.

I'm of the opinion that the definitions in the PHB hold throughout the PHB, unless otherwise specified. "Hit Dice" has meaning in the PHB, but it's not the same meaning as they do in the Monster Manual.

You're of the opinion that, if there's a different definition in another book which can generate an absurd effect, that definition should trump the one in the primary source.

But now we're dragging that discussion into this thread ... oh well. If you want to reply to this, please do it there. Thanks.

-- N

 

[Infiniti2000]

The bonuses from two rages don't stack.

The strength and con increases would stack since they are unnamed (as would the penalty to AC I suppose), but not the morale bonus to Will saves. The caveat on rage is: "A barbarian can fly into a rage only once per encounter."

 

[mvincent]

The strength and con increases would stack since they are unnamed

Unnamed bonuses from the same source do not stack.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It requires a Standard Action to activate each of these, but no action is required to maintain them.

Singing is not "no action." Unfortunately, it's not defined explicitly what kind of action it is and I could see either interpretation being valid: (a) since it's not defined, then singing reverts to a free action for speaking, or (b) it's an standard action to maintain concentration. I think most use (a), but unless you can conclusively prove it's not (b), then someone adopting that interpretation would negate your assertion in this thread.

However, "...Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), spell trigger (such as wands), or command word. "

One of the annoying things about quoting d20srd.org is that sometimes you'll get the wrong rules. The actual rule is slightly different, "Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), or activate magic items by magic word (such as wands)."

Fortunately, I don't believe this changes your stance, but I thought it interesting.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Unnamed bonuses from the same source do not stack.

There is that, but fortunately they'd be different rages!

 

[Artoomis]

Singing is not "no action." Unfortunately, it's not defined explicitly what kind of action it is and I could see either interpretation being valid: (a) since it's not defined, then singing reverts to a free action for speaking, or (b) it's an standard action to maintain concentration. I think most use (a), but unless you can conclusively prove it's not (b), then someone adopting that interpretation would negate your assertion in this thread.

Without getting into the proof, only those bardic music abilities that specify they need concentration do so, per the bardic music description. The "Inspire" abilities do not need concentration.

It's fair to call it a free action (the appropriate perform skill, could be an instrument, poerty, singing, whatever). Most importantly, actions that cannot be taken while maintaining a non-concentration bardic song ability are specifically called out.

 

[mvincent]

they'd be different rages!

"Same source" in D&D does not refer to the "same item" (or same caster), but rather the "same effect” (or “same spell”). The rules say say that modifiers "do not stack if they have the same type or come from the same source (such as the same spell cast twice in succession)".

The Rules Compendium has reiterated this, as has Sage advice here (if desired):
"Q: Can a character benefit from multiple nightsticks (Libris Mortis p78) or multiple orange prism ioun stones (DMG p260)?

A: Neither of these items provides extra bonuses in multiples. The rules for stacking (Rules Compendium p21) do not allow untyped bonuses to stack if they come from the same source."

Edit: ah... if the winky emoticon means you didn't even believe what you said at all (and were just yanking my chain), then ya got me.

 

[Jhaelen]

Could it be that this question is somehow related to the question if it is possible to benefit from several castings of 'Protection from Energy' at the same time, provided the energy type differs?

Anyway, I wouldn't have a problem with the effects of several different bard songs from stacking.

 

[Nifft]

Could it be that this question is somehow related to the question if it is possible to benefit from several castings of 'Protection from Energy' at the same time, provided the energy type differs?

That's another good way to look at it.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Nifft]

Most importantly, actions that cannot be taken while maintaining a non-concentration bardic song ability are specifically called out.

Here's the bit related to that which makes me think the designer's intent is to exclude multiple concurrent Bardic Music effects from the same bard:

Starting a bardic music effect is a standard action. Some bardic music abilities require concentration, which means the bard must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. Even while using bardic music that doesn’t require concentration, a bard cannot cast spells, activate magic items by spell completion (such as scrolls), spell trigger (such as wands), or command word. Just as for casting a spell with a verbal component, a deaf bard has a 20% chance to fail when attempting to use bardic music. If he fails, the attempt still counts against his daily limit.

Now, that's not totally clear, but it seems the designers attempt to equate Bardic Music with spellcasting (verbal only), and Bardic Music explicitly precludes spellcasting -- even spells which lack a verbal component.

Cheers, -- N