Insubstantial

[grendel1968]

Can a medium sized creature that is insubstantial fit through a keyhole, slip between prison bars, or similar confined spaced?

The PH states:

"Some creatures, such as wailing ghosts, are insubstantial,

and some powers can make you insubstantial.
When you are insubstantial, you take half damage
from any attack that deals damage to you. Ongoing​

damage is also halved."

and the MM says:

"The monster lacks a body that has physical

substance and vital areas. It takes half damage from all
sources. If a monster is insubstantial, this is noted in the Resist​

entry of its statistics block."

Is there a mechanic anywhere that suggests a limit? Should there be a limit?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and input.

 

[DracoSuave]

Insubstantial has nothing to do with movement.

However, many monsters with insubstantial also have phasing, which is the quality you're asking about.

 

[grendel1968]

I was considering the insubstantial property as it applies to obstacles and squeezing.

I take your point, however. I think I am just reading "lacks a body" too intuitively, rather than mechanically.

Not to derail my own thread, but after playing D&D for 30 years, I am still getting used to the structure of the 4e rules, specifically how for the most part you are only allowed to do what is specifically described, rather than being allowed to do anything not specifically proscribed. Old habits, and all that.

Thanks for the reminder, Draco.

 

[inkmonkeys]

You are looking for phasing or the ooze keyword. Insubstantial is separate from these qualities because there are times when you don't want them to come in a parcel: the mage whose earth magic allows him to walk through walls but who is otherwise just flesh and bone, for example.

 

[DracoSuave]

I am still getting used to the structure of the 4e rules, specifically how for the most part you are only allowed to do what is specifically described, rather than being allowed to do anything not specifically proscribed. Old habits, and all that.

Thanks for the reminder, Draco.

Well, that's not entirely the case. It's not about the boundries, but about not reinventing the wheel. Keeping insubstantial and phasing separate allows for more possibilities than having them in one quality.

For example: A ghost of a prisoner in a cell might have the insubstantial quality, but not have phasing so that he can't get out of his eternal prison. Keeping things distinct helps to increase possibilities for those DMs that don't like to 'go outside the box.'

But if you're making something that looks like it should have the benefits of both... well just give them both. Easy, and simple. But somethings don't -want- both qualities to work effectively. (see stonemelding dude above)