Interesting experience playing KotS

[nerfherder]

May I just diverse from the main theme and ask "Where did you get the KotS module?"
I thought that it should be released on the 20th of May? But here on these forums people are
reading and discussing it (and now playing it) way before that date???

Well, Charles Ryan works for Esdevium, a big (the biggest?) gaming distributor in Europe. If he didn't have access to a copy of KotS, then I'd be worried about being able to get my copy on release day

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

So I've played a fair bit of 4E so far, but it mostly consisted of one playtest scenario at 13th level (in which everything being new was expected), and several sessions of Scalegloom Hall (which is almost entirely fighting kobolds). Last week I started running Keep on the Shadowfell, and the first scenario was fighting kobolds.

Last night was our second session. Another kobold encounter. Then an encounter with some goblins, a trap, and some rats. And here's where the cool thing happened.

The players knew at this point that different creatures (even different flavours of kobold) have different tricks up their sleeves--real tricks that can have a significant effect on how they fight and how they can be defeated. So even though they knew what a goblin was in general, they were genuinely worried about what the goblins might be able to do. The rats were even worse--in fact, the party barely survived the rats with little input from the goblins (who mostly held back to snipe from a distance). Despite a strong start to the encounter, in the end the heroes were forced to disengage, regroup, and rethink their tactics.

That's right: forced to retreat by some rats and goblins.

I love the sense of discovery that's coming from 4E--more than I recall from previous edition changes. 4E may have conceded a lot of "realism" (in the form of fiddly rules) in exchange for smoother gameplay, but it's added a lot of veracity through more sophisticated and variable bad guy tactics, more ebb and flow in the combat, and the higher level of challenge that can put PCs on the ropes in even a "routine" encounter.

I love the fact that players have to learn, through the encounter, how to deal with a challenge--they can't simply rely on their favourite tactics each time with faith that those will carry them through. (This is especially true at this stage, when everything is new--but will hopefully continue to be largely true.)

I'm surprised it took me this long to notice, but I guess that's because my previous experience was limited to a very narrow pool of creatures.

Hmm. Interesting.
(Snark: How much did WotC pay you for this advertisement? )

My only fear is that it could wear off. If you start a new 1st level campaign, you already know the Goblin, Rat and Kobold tactics. You're prepared. I think this one can still work, though. Now you get to use your "rules mastery" (damn, it's still there!) and show off how you have mastered the art of fighting kobolds and goblins!

Your third campaign starting at 1st level, it might get repetitive. You are not surprised, and you already have showed off your skills. Time for some new 1st level threats? (MM II and III to the rescue?)

 

[Family]

So, what about the rats, exactly, gave you trouble?

Don't spoil it, just venture forth...or as a Bard/Warlord once put it:

"I see a whole army of my countrymen, here in defiance of tyranny! You have come to fight as free men. And free man you are! What will you do without freedom? Will you fight? Yes! Fight and you may die. Run and you will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance, to come back here as young men and tell our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take our freedom!"

 

[invokethehojo]

My group played the "Dragon Mountain" adventure in 2d and 3.5 so they are used to kobolds, and (with the exception of traps and poison) they definately have the mindset "ah, they're just kobolds"

They know as a DM I don't like traps or poison and won't use them unless it's part of a pre made encounter, and since I'm writing my own encounters I'm sure they will keep that mindset when I run my first 4e session for them next thursday.

I can't wait to see the look on thier faces when they get their asses handed to them by some kobolds... and then Nightscale pops out.

 

[Xorn]

It's not rats, it's a freaking swarm of rats.

My FLGS owner called me the moment his preview copy of KotS arrived, I've read it cover to cover twice. I can't wait to run this adventure--and I know the room described above is going to be one of my favorite encounters.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

This sort of news is EXACTLY what I want to hear.

 

[Piratecat]

I agree. I ran my first sample game of 4e last night, and the different monsters really do have different styles. I like how you stated the difference; hearing it from someone who has tried multiple scenarios makes me very happy.

 

[CharlesRyan]

Well, Charles Ryan works for Esdevium, a big (the biggest?) gaming distributor in Europe. If he didn't have access to a copy of KotS, then I'd be worried about being able to get my copy on release day

Plus I used to be The Man.

(Course, now I'm just A Man.)

 

[CharlesRyan]

So, what about the rats, exactly, gave your players trouble? I'm curious.

It's not so much the specifics of what rats do that mattered. It's the fact that the rats do something completely different than what the kobolds or the goblins do.

Not just in the sense that in addition to their BAB they have some little special ability--but in the sense that their mode of attack as substantially different, and it substantially changes both the tactics they use and the tactics the heroes need to use against them.

The heroes really have to learn and adapt as they go along. And that sometimes means things will go very differently than planned, and sometimes they will even have to run away from encounters that aren't, objectively, all that hard. Which I think adds a cool dimension to play.

As we get into this edition, and players come to be familiar with the creatures in the MM, this effect will be less pronounced. But I think the fundamental differences between creatures are great enough that even experienced 4E players will find themselves having to adapt to unexpected encounter situations more often than in previous editions.

 

[AZRogue]

Don't spoil it, just venture forth...or as a Bard/Warlord once put it:

"I see a whole army of my countrymen, here in defiance of tyranny! You have come to fight as free men. And free man you are! What will you do without freedom? Will you fight? Yes! Fight and you may die. Run and you will live at least awhile. And dying in your bed many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance, just one chance, to come back here as young men and tell our enemies that they may take our lives but they will never take our freedom!"

I can't help it. I always have to peek. I can't leave well enough alone, which is why I'm the DM I guess.