Interesting experience playing KotS

[Duelpersonality]

mmmmm...flavored kobold.

I prefer mine with a nice spice rub, then seared but still squir...pink in the middle. Yeah.

I am really liking everything I hear about the different tactics and styles that each monster uses. I was at the point in 3.5 where every encounter I was running had something with class levels.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

That and eating pizza with friends...mmmmm, pizza.

mmmmm...flavored kobold.

Boy, get something to eat! Pizza, Kobolds, doesn't matter, but you are clearly hungry and need it! Or are you on a diet?

 

[Family]

mmm...dancing baby.

GET IN MY BELLY!

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Charles,

I suspect that encounter will generate some TPKs. It is brutal and I have seen it almost wipe out two different groups.

It is fun, even the little guys surprise you and it requires adventurers to be on their toes and never underestimate any foe.

You are still not over the many threads about 4e beeing not deadly enough... so every module has now some expected TPKs in it? - I like that.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Just a general question: can you elaborate on how you used the kobold's shifty ability to maximum effect?

Aside from 'Move in, attack, move out and let another kobold take your place', I can't think of it as an overly effective ability. Because on the PC's turn, they're going to shift and attack.

Wait, I can think of one: A skirmisher shifting away from a fighter, and then using its movement to go leap in the mage's face.

The Kobold can shift twice per round. That's twice the range the PCs can shift. The comparative maneuverability gain is quite notable. Remember, you're not just fighting one Kobold, but multiple ones. If you want to focus fire on a Kobold, this extra shift can really make things hard. If you want to create a well-defined front-line, it doesn't help either...

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

mmm...dancing baby.

GET IN MY BELLY!

Aaaaah....

 

[Lanefan]

Interesting.

I have to ask, how much of the difference is rules/system based and how much is flavour-based? This is relevant to me in that at some point I intend to try and run KotS as a 1e adventure (everyone knows Borderlands far too well!) and if there's some good tactical ideas in there I'm all for it!

Lanefan

 

[malraux]

If you add class levels, you can provide unique experience, but this is entirely based on the class. The players will note if they fight Kobold Rogues and Sorcerers or Goblin Rangers and Clerics, but they don't link the differences to the race. If you'd give the Kobold rangers and Clerics and the Goblins Rogues and Sorcerers, they'd use the same tactics.

The other issue with this is none of those are really legit monsters at 1st level. Adding some class levels is great, but generally you fight kobalds and goblins at first level and then move on.

There are ways you can change this. 3E has clearly monsters that are a lot more unique. Fighting a Beholder or fighting a Giant are two very different experiences. They have unique innate abilities, and players will have to account for them differently, entirely based on the monster, not on class levels.

The reasons some monsters are unique and some are not have a lot to do with the exceptions they have built in. A Hydra can make multiple attacks even if moving, and its head regrows. A Beholder fires multiple eye rays and has a magical cone. You can multiclass as much as you want, you will not get this abilities. Monsters like these are examples of "exception based design". Normally, no one has access to antimagic cone. Beholders do. No one can just regrow his heads, and get even more then he used to. Hydras do.
Dealing with a Hydra requires to find a way to deal with Regeneration (and utilize the option to cut down heads). Dealing with a Beholder requires to deal with antimagic-cones, and multiple magical attacks. You need different, unique tactics to deal with these threats.

The other issue is that racial HD work like a psudeo class. Which limits the feats you can have early on, and also having the unfortunate side effect of later on having way too many feats.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Interesting.

I have to ask, how much of the difference is rules/system based and how much is flavour-based? This is relevant to me in that at some point I intend to try and run KotS as a 1e adventure (everyone knows Borderlands far too well!) and if there's some good tactical ideas in there I'm all for it!

Lanefan

Okay, I have off course not played it yet, but I have run a test session using the Kobold stats from DDXP. Unfortunately I think most of the uniqueness hails from the mechanical elements. I am not sure how well you can covert that to 1E.

Going back to my earlier post - imagine trying to create the uniqueness of a Beholder if you can just "emulate" him with a flying character/monster armed with a bow. You can re flavor all you want, you don't get disintegrating and charming eye rays or anti magic cones anytime soon...

Maybe Charles can point out stuff that goes beyond the mechanical elements, but my hopes are slim...

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Keep in mind, too, that there's often few uses for your minor action. You've already got your weapon out, etc. Finding a use for it is a tactical excersise.

Not for a Kobold! It will "always' use it's minor.

Run up (move), Whack you (Standard), Shift away (Minor)
They can use two minors to shift twice, getting around you for flanking, or whatever.
They can shift away from melee and then CHARGE the mage. (Although fighters whack anyone who shifts near therm)

Some of them ALSO have Shift as an Immediate Reaction when you move up to it.
"Bye!" <shift>

It's awesomely frustrating.

I ran KotS last night myself, and seeing as I've been running a regular 4E game for a month, I'd already done a number of Kobold battles with the players. I was a little worried that they would find the combat a bit repetative, but the simple change of more-dragonshields, less-minions of the first fight to the second, made the fight quite different in spite of using the same map.

(Also, my Tiefling Wizard's use of Ghost Sound yelling in a kobold skirmisher's ear "You have made a grave error! Bow before a servant of Orcus!" as she threw off her cloak to reveal her red skin and horns, and a 22 bluff check, was pretty fun too.)

Fitz