D&D 5E Interrupting rests

[Lanefan]

If it's ridiculous, it's not a logical way to read the sentence.

The logical often leads directly to the ridiculous when things aren't properly worded...

 

[Swarmkeeper]

"Knock knock"
"Who's there?"
"Interrupting Rests"
"Interrup..."
"ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ"

 

[the Jester]

So can you cast one spell in a long rest, without interrupting it? Per your understanding.

The Sage Advice in question is referring to short rests, not long rests.

You can cast as many spells as you like during a long rest, as long as the total casting time is one hour or less.

 

[Hriston]

I noticed this is the recent SA.

[NEW] Does casting a spell while taking a short rest interrupt the rest? Yes. Spellcasting is more strenuous than the activities listed on page 186 of the Player’s Handbook: “eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds.”

So, does casting a spell seem more or less strenuous than combat? For consistency with JC's ruling on long rests, it would need to be less; but now we have a combat in which casting spells is forbidden, least we interrupt our long rest. Up to an hour of such combat... just so long as no spells are cast. Cantrips are okay?

The ruling is about what interrupts a short rest, not a long rest.

 

[oriaxx77]

It is also ridiculous to assume that casting a spell (something PCs do all the time, considering cantrips are at will) or fighting for 1 minute (10 rounds) out of 8 hours of resting won't allow you to gain the benefits of a long rest.

Imagine this IRL, a bunch of soldiers are in a fight, get some downtime to rest, have a brief skirmish, and then continue resting to the full time. So, these soldiers now recover no HP?

People wake up in the middle of the night all the time (getting a drink, using the bathroom, even for scary things like hearing a noise) and yes for many people it might take them a while to fall back to sleep--but most people do (including myself) and wake up hours later perfectly rested.

The rule would be better served with a DC 5 (or 10 maybe) Constitution check or something. If your rest is interrupted, make a check and you still gain the benefits of the rest, otherwise you don't. Each "interruption" could increase the DC by 5 and require a new check.

Finally, keep in mind most groups have watches during the night. You think keeping watch for 1-2 hours or more isn't stressful? Even if you are just sitting there and occasionally walking around? It can be very tiring sometimes. By their rule, that alone would stop anyone from benefiting from a long rest. Some groups insist a long rest can only take place in an area of expected safety, etc. I have a feeling those people are more on board with this idea of easily interrupting rests.

IRL your wounds will not disappear after a long rest. So it is pointless to compare it to real life. It is a video game mechanic to attract MMO players.

 

[Iry]

The rules also account for this - you can only gain the benefits of a long rest once in 24 hours.

Of course. But it helps to have an IC rationalization for game balance mechanics.

 

[clearstream]

The ruling is about what interrupts a short rest, not a long rest.

It's interesting to me that some people separate the two, i.e. that they deem the two mechanics categorically different so that what we know about the one does not bear on what we may know about the other. I find that surprising. It feels like a peculiar approach to the design, if that is indeed what the designers intended. Less simple and consistent.

 

[clearstream]

Okay, I missed your point. Mechanically, if a short rest is interrupted by any amount of fighting, the short rest is lost. If a long rest is interrupted by any fighting, it must be less than an hour in durations and not combined with any other adventuring activities for more than an hour. You can start a short rest and decide to turn it into a long rest (although I'm not at all clear how this occurs, I'm going with it for arguments sake). What's the mechanical issue at hand, here?

In the first hour of a long rest (the part that is a short rest that players are going to extend at the last second into a long rest) one set of conditions are interrupting, and two seconds later (e.g. just barely into the second hour) those conditions are no longer interrupting (practically speaking, except in combination with walking*). A simpler mechanic would define conditions that interrupt rests. Period.

My interest stems from my abiding interest in game mechanics. Because the RAW is ambiguous, one can certainly interpret it (sans SA) in a way that is simpler mechanically. Or one can with equal justice interpret it in a way that is mechanically more baroque.

I believe there is a set of principles that guide to interpreting rules in ways that are consistent, streamlined, and resilient. One of them is something like Occam's Razor: don't multiply entities unnecessarily. You can see that the JC SA version of rests multiplies entities. That was the point. The necessity of doing so does depend on the goals of the DM - i.e. is subjective - so I would say that it is not objectively necessary.

[EDIT *When you think about it, those things can't even interrupt the rest at any point prior to the end of that second hour!]

 

[clearstream]

No, my understanding is that short and long rests are mechanically different, which is in opposition to your view. In only 1 hour, having a sudden event that forces you into activity can disrupt you efforts to relax (although realistically, it would likely extend the short rest by a period of time, not a full hour). Over the course of 8 hours, however, it's not unreasonable for you have some level of strenuous activity, while still being able to return to your 8 hours of relaxation.

One interesting consequence is that long rests can't be interrupted any time before the end of the first hour. Characters have to get at least an hour into them to know if they are interrupted. This gets particularly funky if players extend a short rest into a long rest at the last second!

Here's your problem. RAW is quite possibly one of the worst ways of looking at 5E. RAW is quite literally the DM interprets the outcome of any action or activity (very early in the PHB), and much of the game is written deliberately vague for the purpose of allowing each DM to determine how they want it to work in their game. Unless the DM directly contradicts something explicit in the PHB, then they are correct. Period. Even if they do contradict something explicit, it is simply a houserule, which 5E was specifically deigned to easily integrate.

The RAW is almost everywhere concrete. It is not vague at all for example how much damage magic missile does cast at level 1, or the hit die a fighter gets.

 

[Shiroiken]

One interesting consequence is that long rests can't be interrupted any time before the end of the first hour. Characters have to get at least an hour into them to know if they are interrupted. This gets particularly funky if players extend a short rest into a long rest at the last second!

I've never understood the concept of "extending a short rest into a long rest." Either you're taking a short rest, which simply requires everyone to take minimal activity, or you're taking a long rest, which requires everyone to have only 2 hours of minimal activity (or 1 hour of minimal and 1 hour of strenuous). To "extend" a short rest into a long one requires that everyone spend 1 of those minimal activity hours up front, leaving 7 hours of watch to be broken up among the party. Unless you have an elf or 7 characters, this leave the party vulnerable.

As I mentioned elsewhere, there are always more than 8 hours available for a long rest each day, barring extreme situations (like 4+ hours of forced marching). It makes far more logical sense to have a short rest, followed by the traditional long rest. This gives the PCs time to refresh short rest abilities and spend HD (if desired) in case of interruptions during the long rest. If this short rest is interrupted, you still have plenty of time to start over before the long rest. The only time this should be an issue is if the DM is being a jerk, interrupting every short rest to prevent them, in which case your issues are far more severe.

The RAW is almost everywhere concrete. It is not vague at all for example how much damage magic missile does cast at level 1, or the hit die a fighter gets.

This is why I said that it's only when the DM contradicts something explicit that it's not RAW, but a houserule. The HD of a fighter is explicit, but the damage of magic missile is not. Do you roll for each missile, or only once for all of them? Intuitively you want to roll for each missile, but the rule on rolling damage for spells implies that you should only roll once. Neither is explicitly correct, thus leaving it to DM interpretation (SA says roll once).