Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
I'd still like to know how the Digital Initiative is going to affect gamers w/o internet access.
Interview with Scott Rouse, Chris Perkins & Bill Slavicsek
- Thread starter Morrus
- Start date
AdmundfortGeographer
Getting lost in fantasy maps
This interview was very worthwhile.
I'm a bit disappointed that the question wasn't asked, nor any insight given, about platform neutrality (OS/browser). So what I would like to see is that nothing is offered in the Digital Initiative that requires one OS to function or the use of one web browser to the exclusion of others. This would basically mean that whatever is done works equally on MacOS/Windows/Unix and uses industry standards if viewed in the web browser.
I'm a bit disappointed that the question wasn't asked, nor any insight given, about platform neutrality (OS/browser). So what I would like to see is that nothing is offered in the Digital Initiative that requires one OS to function or the use of one web browser to the exclusion of others. This would basically mean that whatever is done works equally on MacOS/Windows/Unix and uses industry standards if viewed in the web browser.
Twowolves
Explorer
Mouseferatu said:
Wait a minute.
1) They said they had planned to end the print version of both magazines as far back as a year ago;
2) They also said they expected the decision to upset fans;
3) You say you wonder if they would have provided more answers sooner, IF these forums hadn't become a zoo?
Does it not logically seem that they knew, well in advance, what kind of reaction this decision would evoke, but they waited a week to reply because teh intrawebz became a zoo? Either they had advance warning, or they were caught off guard and shied away. Or, more likely in my opinion, they felt it was best to let the diehard fans twist in the wind while the dust settled before granting an interview that reads more like a senate hearing than a consolation or pep talk. You also talk about how WotC is not a monolithic entity, but instead composed of Real People (tm), and then turn around and say those same Real People have their hands tied by.... the Monolithic Entity of the Men Upstairs. Uh huh. I see.
I understand that Paizo got an extension of the license to finish the AP, and that's great. I also understand that they had to announce when they did due to GAMA. Everything's kosher so far. But for WotC to have had this in the works for over a year, to know it was going to royally cheeze off HUGE swaths of their customer base, and NOT have; a) a prepared statement to coincide with Paizo's (beyond the press release, cold as ice blurb typical of a corporate merger); b) a dedicated person or persons posting on the top 3-5 message boards, staying in touch with fans and calming the storm before it became a hurricane; and c) some kind of preview or solid answers about the upcoming DI, just doesn't wash. They saw this trainwreck coming down the tracks for miles, and then show up a week late with a box of band-aids.
Needless to say, this does NOT bode well for the DI, IMO.
A lot of people overreacted, yes. Not just on these boards, but universally across the entire community. But a lot more people reacted in a completely justified manner. The loss of these magazines DOES hurt, some a lot more than others. No one can point at another person and say "your feelings are disingenuous" because we don't really know how they feel deep inside. I personally have hundreds of issues of these magazines, bought almost entirely at the FLGS, at a higher price than I could have paid with a subscription, just to help support the community. I have been reading them continually for over 20 years. Who has the right to tell me that the loss I feel inside is unjustified? Who? No one, that's who.
I hope one and all will excuse me, but I don't feel excited about having WotC tell me "trust us, you'll love it". WotC, and TSR before them, lost that level of trust with Spellfire, Dragon Dice, shoving Polyhedron down our (the Dungeon readers') throats, and now, the cancellation of Dragon and Dungeon magazines.
Tzeentch
First Post
The interview seemed a bit uh ... "content lite" but it does answer some of the questions that have been posed (the low hanging fruit at least). I would suspect that they have material for a rollout of whatever it is, and the comments about "what would you like to see" is a reasonable attempt to try to turn negativity into more constructive feedback. I'm just glad they are not going to completely sit back and let this mistrust seep into the fandom so deep that it screws up the entire player network.
WotC almost certainly has content for their DI ready now or in production (really, it could even just be the long-missing errata and many would be jumping for joy) and are probably looking to tailor it as best they can via internet feedback, monitoring the traffic on their website articles, and checking what worked in Dragon/Dungeon. I mean seriously, if they can get their house staff to write articles praising the company direction they can break out the whips to generate material for the house organ as well ("You! Yes, you behind the copy of Synibarr! Get that material cut from Races of Eberron in printable form by 7 am! Stand STILL laddie!" <whipcrack>)
What I Want to See
* Little DRM. Really, don't bother. If you allow printing of the material all DRM will do is piss off the customers and drive a LOT of traffic to bookwarez. If you don't allow printing ... well good luck with that ... and it still won't prevent the books from getting released. Laugh in the face of anyone claiming otherwise.
* Campaign Classics. Not everyone cares, or even likes, the "official" takes on old material that has slowly come out. I'd love to see old stuff revisited independently, even the same stuff with different viewpoints.
* Buy-in Sweeteners. Have an old D&D PDF available for free each month to subscribers (ideally, newer scans of the old books since many of the current PDFs are almost unreadable). Heck, if you theme monthly content have it tie-in somehow and get a writer to create some conversions to the new rules versions.
* DDM Content. A regular article on using DDM in your RPG campaign - different characters or creatures that can use the existing minis (or require only minor kitbashing) would be cool. For example, a series of NPCs or monsters of various CR/campaign type using X figure. You can start by releasing FIXED versions of the DDM RPG stat cards (I'd volunteer to work on this since stat errors annoy me almost as much as John Cooper). Heck, even some Dreamblade action or the Axis and Allies vehicles in d20 Modern
* Magic of the Month. Get some brand synergy going. Have a Magic: The Gathering card each weak translated into D&D/d20 terms. Thrulls and Sera Angels oh my!
* Content Contests. If you guys still own the old Dragon/Dungeon articles have some small contests (swag or PDF prizes or something) for putting new spins on the old material. If you are not giving access to old issues for basic subscription then release the article as content along with the contest guidelines. Things like that ancient Dragon article for growing warriors from dragon teeth - but maybe with a Dragonlance spin or a version where you grow things from troll teeth. Mainly thinking this would be a way to empower readership to contribute and maybe grow a new freelancer.
* Campaign Cartography. As a GIS major in college, I'd personally love to see the staff cartographers tips and tricks to make good looking maps and such. Stuff like tips on creating good item libraries, basic cartographic principles for noobs, and how the artists manage their Photoshop/Illustrator/whatever layers.
WotC almost certainly has content for their DI ready now or in production (really, it could even just be the long-missing errata and many would be jumping for joy) and are probably looking to tailor it as best they can via internet feedback, monitoring the traffic on their website articles, and checking what worked in Dragon/Dungeon. I mean seriously, if they can get their house staff to write articles praising the company direction they can break out the whips to generate material for the house organ as well ("You! Yes, you behind the copy of Synibarr! Get that material cut from Races of Eberron in printable form by 7 am! Stand STILL laddie!" <whipcrack>)
What I Want to See
* Little DRM. Really, don't bother. If you allow printing of the material all DRM will do is piss off the customers and drive a LOT of traffic to bookwarez. If you don't allow printing ... well good luck with that ... and it still won't prevent the books from getting released. Laugh in the face of anyone claiming otherwise.
* Campaign Classics. Not everyone cares, or even likes, the "official" takes on old material that has slowly come out. I'd love to see old stuff revisited independently, even the same stuff with different viewpoints.
* Buy-in Sweeteners. Have an old D&D PDF available for free each month to subscribers (ideally, newer scans of the old books since many of the current PDFs are almost unreadable). Heck, if you theme monthly content have it tie-in somehow and get a writer to create some conversions to the new rules versions.
* DDM Content. A regular article on using DDM in your RPG campaign - different characters or creatures that can use the existing minis (or require only minor kitbashing) would be cool. For example, a series of NPCs or monsters of various CR/campaign type using X figure. You can start by releasing FIXED versions of the DDM RPG stat cards (I'd volunteer to work on this since stat errors annoy me almost as much as John Cooper). Heck, even some Dreamblade action or the Axis and Allies vehicles in d20 Modern
* Magic of the Month. Get some brand synergy going. Have a Magic: The Gathering card each weak translated into D&D/d20 terms. Thrulls and Sera Angels oh my!
* Content Contests. If you guys still own the old Dragon/Dungeon articles have some small contests (swag or PDF prizes or something) for putting new spins on the old material. If you are not giving access to old issues for basic subscription then release the article as content along with the contest guidelines. Things like that ancient Dragon article for growing warriors from dragon teeth - but maybe with a Dragonlance spin or a version where you grow things from troll teeth. Mainly thinking this would be a way to empower readership to contribute and maybe grow a new freelancer.
* Campaign Cartography. As a GIS major in college, I'd personally love to see the staff cartographers tips and tricks to make good looking maps and such. Stuff like tips on creating good item libraries, basic cartographic principles for noobs, and how the artists manage their Photoshop/Illustrator/whatever layers.
Sammael
Adventurer
@Scott:
I can see that my own question was not answered (and I am not sure if it was sent along with the others, or if Russ made a selection of questions prior to sending them). Whatever the case, I have a bit of friendly advice (as an IT industry professional): your current website and message board issues are making WotC look very, very bad. I frequent at least 5 gaming-related message boards, and threads/posts regarding your website availability, errors, bugs, and so on, appear on each and every one of them with what you would probably consider disturbing frequency. Now, I know that you must have a whole new infrastructure planned for the DI, but this doesn't mean that the problems with your current infrastructure won't turn people off from the DI because of your track record.
My suggestion is to migrate the current website to your new infrastructure "as is" as soon as possible, and to allocate additional resources (maybe just 4-5 additional employee/hours per day) to fixing it. Also, you need to have a webmaster/web developer available outside your usual business hours, which is (from what I can tell, and from what I've heard) currently not the case. For instance, there have been many instances of web site problems that occur on Friday night when an article goes live according to the planned schedule, but they generally don't get fixed until Monday. This is not acceptable now, and it sure won't be acceptable when DI goes live and people start paying for content.
I can see that my own question was not answered (and I am not sure if it was sent along with the others, or if Russ made a selection of questions prior to sending them). Whatever the case, I have a bit of friendly advice (as an IT industry professional): your current website and message board issues are making WotC look very, very bad. I frequent at least 5 gaming-related message boards, and threads/posts regarding your website availability, errors, bugs, and so on, appear on each and every one of them with what you would probably consider disturbing frequency. Now, I know that you must have a whole new infrastructure planned for the DI, but this doesn't mean that the problems with your current infrastructure won't turn people off from the DI because of your track record.
My suggestion is to migrate the current website to your new infrastructure "as is" as soon as possible, and to allocate additional resources (maybe just 4-5 additional employee/hours per day) to fixing it. Also, you need to have a webmaster/web developer available outside your usual business hours, which is (from what I can tell, and from what I've heard) currently not the case. For instance, there have been many instances of web site problems that occur on Friday night when an article goes live according to the planned schedule, but they generally don't get fixed until Monday. This is not acceptable now, and it sure won't be acceptable when DI goes live and people start paying for content.
I appreciated hearing information from WOTC, but think they were still pretty vague on most of the details, and at this stage (announcement of cancellation made, and ending issues only a few months away), I would expect to be hearing a bit more about the DI than we are.
In terms of what I am looking for:
* Portability & Price - Price should be directly tied to portability. If all I can do is read it (ie., can't save it, can't print it, etc.), I would only be willing to pay a very small amount ($5/mo.). That amount increases with the more control I have with the information I am paying for. Little DRM on PDF / downloadable content, then some more ($10-20/mo, depending on what it becomes).
* No Ads - If you are getting me to pay a subscription for the content, I don't want the landscape littered with spinning twirling blinking ads. Web content is supported by either subsciption or ads, but not both. So if you're making me pay for it -- no ads!
* Content - I would like to see similar content that filled the pages of Dungeon and Dragon. Articles, spells, PrCs, feats, class focuses, monster ecologies, etc., etc. I'd like to see artwork mixed in. Having the materials collected, into bundles either of WOTCs choosing or my own is interesting. A character generator (including spells) that has access to all the WOTC material (books/dragons/web enhancements) would be cool or encounter & treasure generators. Material that supports existing campaign settings, as well as the unsupported ones (Planescape, Dark Sun, et al).
* Don't care about -- I don't care at all for migration of my actual game to the web. Anything having to do with character libraries, virtual table tops, chat etc., don't interest me in the least. Having some tools there for the DM is fine, but my game is rooted in pen & paper.
Sakkara
In terms of what I am looking for:
* Portability & Price - Price should be directly tied to portability. If all I can do is read it (ie., can't save it, can't print it, etc.), I would only be willing to pay a very small amount ($5/mo.). That amount increases with the more control I have with the information I am paying for. Little DRM on PDF / downloadable content, then some more ($10-20/mo, depending on what it becomes).
* No Ads - If you are getting me to pay a subscription for the content, I don't want the landscape littered with spinning twirling blinking ads. Web content is supported by either subsciption or ads, but not both. So if you're making me pay for it -- no ads!
* Content - I would like to see similar content that filled the pages of Dungeon and Dragon. Articles, spells, PrCs, feats, class focuses, monster ecologies, etc., etc. I'd like to see artwork mixed in. Having the materials collected, into bundles either of WOTCs choosing or my own is interesting. A character generator (including spells) that has access to all the WOTC material (books/dragons/web enhancements) would be cool or encounter & treasure generators. Material that supports existing campaign settings, as well as the unsupported ones (Planescape, Dark Sun, et al).
* Don't care about -- I don't care at all for migration of my actual game to the web. Anything having to do with character libraries, virtual table tops, chat etc., don't interest me in the least. Having some tools there for the DM is fine, but my game is rooted in pen & paper.
Sakkara
Twowolves said:Wait a minute.
1) They said they had planned to end the print version of both magazines as far back as a year ago;
2) They also said they expected the decision to upset fans;
3) You say you wonder if they would have provided more answers sooner, IF these forums hadn't become a zoo?
Does it not logically seem that they knew, well in advance, what kind of reaction this decision would evoke, but they waited a week to reply because teh intrawebz became a zoo? Either they had advance warning, or they were caught off guard and shied away. Or, more likely in my opinion, they felt it was best to let the diehard fans twist in the wind while the dust settled before granting an interview that reads more like a senate hearing than a consolation or pep talk. You also talk about how WotC is not a monolithic entity, but instead composed of Real People (tm), and then turn around and say those same Real People have their hands tied by.... the Monolithic Entity of the Men Upstairs. Uh huh. I see.
I understand that Paizo got an extension of the license to finish the AP, and that's great. I also understand that they had to announce when they did due to GAMA. Everything's kosher so far. But for WotC to have had this in the works for over a year, to know it was going to royally cheeze off HUGE swaths of their customer base, and NOT have; a) a prepared statement to coincide with Paizo's (beyond the press release, cold as ice blurb typical of a corporate merger); b) a dedicated person or persons posting on the top 3-5 message boards, staying in touch with fans and calming the storm before it became a hurricane; and c) some kind of preview or solid answers about the upcoming DI, just doesn't wash. They saw this trainwreck coming down the tracks for miles, and then show up a week late with a box of band-aids.
Needless to say, this does NOT bode well for the DI, IMO.
A lot of people overreacted, yes. Not just on these boards, but universally across the entire community. But a lot more people reacted in a completely justified manner. The loss of these magazines DOES hurt, some a lot more than others. No one can point at another person and say "your feelings are disingenuous" because we don't really know how they feel deep inside. I personally have hundreds of issues of these magazines, bought almost entirely at the FLGS, at a higher price than I could have paid with a subscription, just to help support the community. I have been reading them continually for over 20 years. Who has the right to tell me that the loss I feel inside is unjustified? Who? No one, that's who.
I hope one and all will excuse me, but I don't feel excited about having WotC tell me "trust us, you'll love it". WotC, and TSR before them, lost that level of trust with Spellfire, Dragon Dice, shoving Polyhedron down our (the Dungeon readers') throats, and now, the cancellation of Dragon and Dungeon magazines.
Agree completely. With a full year to prepare I have to say I'm a bit underwhelmed.
Oh well, I guess after 25 years of purchases and despite the 3 different D&D groups I'm currently GMing, I don't fit into their new & well defined business model
Best of luck with the DI !
Oh, cool, Scott Rouse is here!
I just want to say I am dissapointed, like almost everyone else, that Dragon and Dungeon are gone but I am very willing to see what you have in store for this Digital Initiative. I also want to thank you for being here and for answering those questions for Morrus and all of us here.
Since you say you're listening to suggestions, I'll add my thoughts in:
---I definitely would like the content to be equal to Dragon/Dungeon. Since you guys said it will and MORE, I am eagerly awaiting to see the results
---I am glad to hear you guys are still taking freelancers for this DI
---I would like to see the "big hits" make it into DI. Particularly Demonomicon, Class Acts, Campaign Classics, and Creature Catalog
---I'd like to see campaign content for Forgotten Realms and Eberron
---I would like to know that I get to keep whatever content I've paid for with my subscription
---I would like to see material updated from old settings like Kara-Tur, Maztica, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Planescape, and others
---I really would like to see more game material for non-core products such as Incarnum, the Complete Book Classes (and the Archivist, Dread Necromancer, Factotum, and the classes in PHB2), Psionics, Epic (I really missed "Epic Insights" on your website), Tome of Magic, Tome of Battle, and others (such as vile and exalted spells from Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds or Reserve feats from Complete Arcane, and definitely more Oriental Adventures material that's not Rokugan-related)
---Work with Paizo and get out a Dragon Compendium Volume 2
Other than that, I am patiently waiting until the final issues of Dragon and Dungeon are released and hoping by then you guys will start the Digital Initiative soon afterwards.
I just want to say I am dissapointed, like almost everyone else, that Dragon and Dungeon are gone but I am very willing to see what you have in store for this Digital Initiative. I also want to thank you for being here and for answering those questions for Morrus and all of us here.
Since you say you're listening to suggestions, I'll add my thoughts in:
---I definitely would like the content to be equal to Dragon/Dungeon. Since you guys said it will and MORE, I am eagerly awaiting to see the results
---I am glad to hear you guys are still taking freelancers for this DI
---I would like to see the "big hits" make it into DI. Particularly Demonomicon, Class Acts, Campaign Classics, and Creature Catalog
---I'd like to see campaign content for Forgotten Realms and Eberron
---I would like to know that I get to keep whatever content I've paid for with my subscription
---I would like to see material updated from old settings like Kara-Tur, Maztica, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Planescape, and others
---I really would like to see more game material for non-core products such as Incarnum, the Complete Book Classes (and the Archivist, Dread Necromancer, Factotum, and the classes in PHB2), Psionics, Epic (I really missed "Epic Insights" on your website), Tome of Magic, Tome of Battle, and others (such as vile and exalted spells from Book of Vile Darkness and Book of Exalted Deeds or Reserve feats from Complete Arcane, and definitely more Oriental Adventures material that's not Rokugan-related)
---Work with Paizo and get out a Dragon Compendium Volume 2
Other than that, I am patiently waiting until the final issues of Dragon and Dungeon are released and hoping by then you guys will start the Digital Initiative soon afterwards.
AdmundfortGeographer
Getting lost in fantasy maps
I wouldn't say that, but I would say that , in my opinion, 90% of the invective wouldn't have been typed if people were not hidden behind the veil of anonymity and pseudonymity. Attach one's name to one's words and it is amazing how much craziness gets toned down... usually.Twowolves said:
Uh, I'm pretty sure it was Paizo that did that. The way I'm remembering it was that it happened after Periodicals was spun off... so it would be a Paizo decision to have done that. But more seriously, holding a grudge over Spellfire and Dragon Dice?Twowolves said:
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