Invisibility vs. hide

[StMalice]

I've been asked to play a game with some new comers to D&D. They've played a few games already, but nothing past 10th level. The DM and I decided to start a 15th level game to give them an idea to how powerful you can become. One of the topics that came up was rings of invisibility. However, (this is a 3.0ed game) the rules state that making a spot check DC20 within so many feet of the invisible creature you will see them, or have at least a good enough idea where they are that you can make an attack. This is pretty bogus in my opinion.

Compare this then to my character, Rouge7/Slayer of Domiel 8, hide of 27. That being the case if I'm next to a character who turns invisible and I'm hiding said creature trying to make a spot check makes one and rolls a modified 20. So he knows something invisible is there only not sure what, however, it's completely oblivious to me.

Does this strike anyone as, I dunno, odd? Invisible is just that invisible, surely you'd be more well hidden or out of sight then someone just hiding. Has anyone addressed this in their games? House rules?

 

[hong]

Hiding normally requires cover or concealment. You can't just "hide", you have to have something to hide behind. The skill check tells you how well you managed to do this. Invisibility, on the other hand, can be done anywhere: you can be invisible in the middle of an empty, brightly-lit room, for instance. In this situation, your Hide skill doesn't help you, because there's nothing to hide behind.

That said, there's nothing stopping you hiding while invisible. If you did this, I'd rule that the Spot check is against DC 20 or your Hide check, whichever is higher.

 

[elkan]

I rule it as either the 'shimmer' effect, a la Predator movies, or that you can manage to spot that that particular roughly humanoid-shaped part of the air is more clear of dust/whatnot than the rest. More likely the first.

 

[Derren]

Don't forget that when you make the DC 20 check you only know that something invisible is in the area, not the location.

 

[shilsen]

Don't forget that when you make the DC 20 check you only know that something invisible is in the area, not the location.

What Derren said. In order to know the precise square the invisible creature is in, you need to make a DC40 Spot check.

 

[CalrinAlshaw]

I thought a character has to make opposed listen/move silently roles and to pinpoint someone you need to beat their move silently by 20.

Calrin Alshaw

 

[Brekki]

Invisibility gives you a +20 on hide, or a +40 if you don't move ... so if you duck behind something and stand still noone will see you with your hide 40+27+d20

only the combo of "hide in plain sight" and invis makes it possible to get around the DC 20 spot check for your opponents.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Also, if you've "located" an invisible creature you still have 50% miss chance for its concealment.

 

[Diirk]

only the combo of "hide in plain sight" and invis makes it possible to get around the DC 20 spot check for your opponents.

You don't need hide in plain sight if you have invisibility, being invisible gives you concealment, which allows you to hide.