[Iron Heroes] Magic oddities.

[Felon]

OTOH, I'm not completely against simply importing the Warlock, as Mike suggested, either.

Whoa. Bing 360 there. So we go from magic being something exotic, powerful, and dangerous to master to it being this utilitarian force that casters can output at will in infinite quantities?

 

[Felon]

I see this as two separate issues. Mike screwed up and did not get the magic system quite together. However, he had the guts and integrity to face up to the shortcomings in his book, and chat with people honestly about it. I am disappointed by the former, and highly impressed by the latter.

Well, I guess I have to agree there. I'd rather someone come out and admit there's a problem than the ivory-tower mentality of guys like Skip Williams or Charles Ryan, whose response to criticism of rules they deivsed typically boils down 'the rules are fine; it's your ignorance of them that's the problem".

I'm very pleased that Mearls is now a part of WotC. Just hope he can still give IH the attention it surely deserves.

 

[dalfen]

mana token

I'ld like a token system for magic, one that could reflect building power overtime, either summoning rituals that take time or drawing essense from the land.

Well, it's a bit simple but for making a start maybe it can serve you. (For my part i'm trying to decide if i fix the IH magic system or implant another in the setting).

Another idea for an arcanist Mana Token Pool.
The idea for this was obviously inspired in Dark Sun.
STEP 1:GATHER MANA
You get the mana needed to channel your spells from the land. So you can have a maximum tokens of 10+ your arcanist levels and all the mana tokens not used in an encounter or scene (use the VTM definition for a scene outside combat situations) are lost (as like other classes with his tokens)
You begin the day with 0 mana tokens, and you can collect it channelling from the land.

Action Tokens gained
Gather Energy Land 1/move action
Gather Energy Land 2/standard action
Gather Energy Land 4/full-round action

At 10th level his gather mana abilities increases
Action Tokens gained
Gather Energy Land 2/move action
Gather Energy Land 3/standard action
Gather Energy Land 5/full-round action

There is no negative mana, but every time that you gather mana you must make a Fortitude save (DC 20+ your TOTAL mana gathered). The roll is made when you end to defiling the land (and action that can consume several rounds). Defiling is an action that provokes attacks of opportunity. You can reduce the Fortitude save by 5 for a total of (DC 15+ your TOTAL mana gathered),
Defiling the land. This make that all the creatures with the plant descriptor in a 30 feet radius receive a damage equal to the mana you gathered. Other creatures (including the arcanist) receive instead a subdual damage equal to the mana gathered. There is no saving throw to his effect but magic resistance and the reinforced defences of the armiger protect as normal.

The other two steps to cast and spells will work as normal.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

But if you do, it's a problem. For me, it's strike one against using IH.

"Didn't have time" to figure out how to implement magic? Unacceptable. Heck, leave it out of the PHB if you can't make it work.

100% agree.

Nasty accustation to level against a game designer removed, falls foul of our 'keep it civil' rule - Plane Sailing

 

[JoeGKushner]

At least at low levels, the Black Company magic system is best described as "punitive." As in, the game seems to want to punish you for having the gall to be a spellcaster. The kinds of magical effects that you can call forth are laughably weak and devastatingly draining. I've never played such a character - I just built one at 3rd level for a play by post game that never got off the ground. Correspondingly I also don't know how they fare at higher levels - but more powerful wizards suffer correspondingly more damaging costs.

Haven

In the Slavelords of Cydonia game I ran, the magician of the group in essence was a very weak fighter who could slowly heal the group and it wasn't till about 7th level that he even bothered with his force hammer spells. Since I was originally going to run it till 20th level, he figured it was a good trade that he'd be more weak than a standard caster at first but have some decent power by about level 15.

 

[Felon]

100% agree.

Well, I don't want to just lambaste Mearls. I actually consider myself a fan of his work for Paizo, and Iron Heroes is pretty good in most other areas. I do get the feeling from reading IH that the game was designed in something of a vacum, which is never a good thing; there should always be at least a couple of folks bouncing ideas off each other.

But 90% of IH feels like the game I've been waiting. If IH gets revised, I'll gladly pony up the cash for it.

 

[Driddle]

Comparing two level 17 arcanists, just to see how silly it gets...

Now, obviously the magic system isn't the core of IH. But still... I'm looking at three options.

• Tweak ...
• Replace ...
• Some combination ...

Or a fourth option. Pretty wild and wacky, I know, but bear with me on this:

Don't focus on magic. Leave the system as it is.

I've heard that in playtesting it seems to have worked pretty well.

 

[mearls]

Unacceptable. Heck, leave it out of the PHB if you can't make it work.

Which is precisely what I wanted to do.

 

[Christian]

Which is precisely what I wanted to do.

Oh, blaming the editors now, are we?



I can understand their desire to include even a tacked-on magic system rather than none at all. And I can also understand your desire not to drag down an absolutely amazing piece of work that has your name on it with a tacked-on magic system. I'm hopeful that the 'net community will be able to work up a good system that integrates will with the rest of the ruleset ...

 

[Armistice]

Has anyone thought of the Midnight (FFG) Channeler? That system works quite well. All you'd need to do is figure out how to integrate the token pool. I play Midnight and since Iron Heroes first test for me will be in that setting...the Channeler is the class that came to mind.