Iron Lore: Malhavoc's Surprise?

[bolen]

It looks much more balanced then conan (I will have to cannibalize it)

 

[SixFootGnome]

Cavalier?

"Hmm, I'd say that being rich and deftly navigating feudal obligations is in many ways distinctly un-knightlike, but I'll give you much of the rest."

That all comes down to definitions and concepts. I'm guessing that your schema for a knight would be a chivalric, arthurian guy. I was using knight in the sense of one holding that title within the feudal system, be it historically or in other tales besides those arthurian. Besides which, remember that in arthurian mythology, Mordred was a knight...

As to the idea of a cavalier class, the core problem comes down to this: Is your cavalier more powerful than other classes if he gets to use his horse and about as powerful if not, or is he comparably balanced to other classes while in his forte and feeble from limited options outside his forte? A good example would be the rogue, who's really good under optimal circumstances but badly hosed in tight quarters or in fights where sneak attack doesn't apply.

I won't say that it is impossible to forge a third path besides making the cavalier 'too good mounted and only acceptable otherwise' and 'pretty decent mounted and lame otherwise' but I do think that it is nontrivial to accomplish something other than one of those alternatives.

 

[A'koss]

Still chewing on all the Archer goodness... It looks like you'll have some greater flexibillity in customizing your archer than I thought you would. Mike was very clever in allowing the archer to make combination effect shots (eg. 1 Legendary + 1 Death effect) and the different tiers of special attacks. That gives you a lot of cool flexibility but at the same time it reigns the archer in somewhat in that he needs to be patient in order to make the sweet shot. The different BABs, interesting... I agree that I think the Weapon Master will likely mirror the Archer in many respects.

Definitely some confusing bits throughout - Some of the special attacks seemed a little unclear whether they applied to a single shot or all the shots in the round. Mike's use of the word "darts" is a little disjoining too.

OK, Mike's officially not allowed to name character classes anymore.

It stuns me that he can come up with all the cool game mechanics and yet, fails so miserably here...

A'koss.

 

[Michael Tree]

As to the idea of a cavalier class, the core problem comes down to this: Is your cavalier more powerful than other classes if he gets to use his horse and about as powerful if not, or is he comparably balanced to other classes while in his forte and feeble from limited options outside his forte?

That's not the only core problem, IMO. Another big problem is that "horse-mounted combatant" isn't really that strong an archetype. You could make a heavily armored knight on a heavy warhorse who charges in formation with a lance, a lightly armored mongol on a pony who darts back and forth sniping with a bow or making lightning fast raids, a mounted leader who rides into battle leading his troops, and so on.

Since IL's classes are all based on archetypal combat styles, just take the combat class you want, put him on a horse, and take mounted combat feats. Heavy knight? Armiger on a horse. Lighting fast raider? Harrier on a horse. Cavalary bowman? Archer on a horse. Cavalry commander? Hunter on a horse.

OK, Mike's officially not allowed to name character classes anymore.

*sighs*
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.
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*nods*

 

[JEL]

I like it, but I agree that it could use some better wording and clarification in places.

 

[Felon]

It stuns me that he can come up with all the cool game mechanics and yet, fails so miserably here...

Why not "marksman" or "sharpshooter" or something less weapon-specific, I have to wonder?

Ah well, I'll settle for the cool mechanics I guess. We see how he handles the whole DR-penetration issue that was such a bone of contention earlier in this thread. Works for me.

 

[Azgulor]

It looks much more balanced then conan (I will have to cannibalize it)

Really? I came away thinking it's somewhere between on par-with or less-balanced.

I also think the Arrow Ladder Shot is dorky (everything else was intriguing, however). For Green Arrow or Hawkeye in a superhero game, ok. But I can't see Legolas or Robin Hood saying, "Quick let me fire a quiver of arrows to provide sniping postions or escape points there, there, and....there." I guess I can all to easily envision such a scene being played out in the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon with Hank's uber-arrows.

If Iron Lore helps emulate Swords-&-Sorcery ala Conan, Fafhrd & Gray Mouser, etc. as I originally thought, this book is a must have. If this book is Fantasy Super Hero Action Hour, I'll pass.

Azgulor

 

[A'koss]

Why not "marksman" or "sharpshooter" or something less weapon-specific, I have to wonder?

Heh, those would have been my picks as well.

I also noticed that the "archer" is a lot like that Marvel comics villian who can throw anyting he gets his hands on and never misses (Bullseye?). Anyway, the archer seems to be able to apply his special abilities to *any* ranged weapon that falls into his hands. You don't even need to be proficient in it if I'm reading this right... Does this mean I can make a death attack with a thown chopstick if I wanted?

And regarding the "dorky" ladder shot. Yeah, it's a bit dorky... but IIRC, I've seen it done by an archer in a "Savage Sword of Conan" issue.

A'koss.

 

[Andor]

I also think the Arrow Ladder Shot is dorky (everything else was intriguing, however). For Green Arrow or Hawkeye in a superhero game, ok.

No way man, there is nothing dorky about making a ladder with ranged weapons. How else do you get the berserker up the cliff to fight the boss? Now I just need to make a character who can do it with silverware. Perhaps with an effete british accent....

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

If Iron Lore helps emulate Swords-&-Sorcery ala Conan, Fafhrd & Gray Mouser, etc. as I originally thought, this book is a must have. If this book is Fantasy Super Hero Action Hour, I'll pass.

Azgulor

I'll get back to my pet cavalier issue in a moment, but I thought this deserved a seperate response.

The ladder shot actually put a lot of my fears to ease. All too often, in my opinion, Sword and Sorcery games forget that at the edges of Sword and Sorcery lie the realms of the legendary. It's one of the explicit portions of the formula. It's a pretty high level formula and it works for me in terms of the type of character you should be encountering and playing at that level.

It's also a little crafty, not in the I'm a sneaky mouse sense but in the Conan makes his own helmets and traps sense using his sword, hammer, and a bit of tin.

That said, I also like that it is one option among many and really the only option with that flavor so if you want to forbid the player from taking it for style reasons there's no reason for the player to really complain. Further, the way it's set up, I'd be very surprised if a player took it having been playing in your campaign with your aesthetics as long as he or she has.

I'll be very pleased if most of the classes include at least one or two of these dorky options.