Ironing out a Homebrew Spell - Rapture -

[MarkVIIIMarc]

So far with the help of many others I have worked the following up. The delayed damage is someone else's idea I really liked. Its different but their logic was sound.

I'm fishing for any more proofreading and open to suggestions about level. Level 3 is what I'm shooting for. I think Level 3 is in line with Dissonant Whispers, Phantasmal Force, Hold Person and Thunderwave for damage & effect?

I might try it out as DM first where level really doesn't matter THAT much I suppose.

Level 3
1 Action
Duration 1 Minute, Concentration
Range 60 feet
Components: VSM

You target one creature, on a failed Intelligence saving throw that creature is Charmed and enters a dreamlike state imagining they have obtained their greatest desire or an immediate fantasy. Example's could be but are not limited to standing in the middle of a pile of gold or being reunited with a lost loved one. Even though they may be standing the target is effectively unconscious while charmed by the spell. On a successful save the target takes half of 3D6 damage and the spell is over. On each of its turns the target can spend one action rationalizing the euphoric dream is not real and attempt the Intelligence save again. If it makes the save after initially failing the target takes 3D6 psychic damage and their mind tries to cope with he shift back to reality. (thanks for that line MagneticKitty!)

At higher level: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher the damage increases by 1D6 for each level above 3rd

Classes: Bard, Warlock

Thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Coroc]

Ahm tbh i think it is to strong, it does charm / make the target unconscious / does damage / uses a rare saving thorw (Int) / does half damage on fail still /scales with each Level.

Nope.

Would be 7th Level Minimum with all of these effects. It is an insta take out spell for 1 creature and you can Keep it up by concentration and the longer you Keep it up the more damage the target takes so it turns into an instakill spell.

 

[Zethnos]

I would say to compare this spell to that of "Hunger of Hadar" http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Hunger_of_Hadar

Homebrew
Level: 3
Time: 1 Action
Length: Concentration - 1 minute.
Save: Int - Initially & Once per turn.
Condition: Unconscious - Grants advantage and automatic crit on hit & Immobilizes them.
Damage: 3D6 or Save for Half

Hunger of Hadar
Level: 3
Time: 1 Action
Length: Concentration - 1 minute.
Save: Dex - Once per end of turn.
Condition: Bindness - Grants advantage against. Difficult terrain - Half movement speed.
Damage: 2D6 or Save for None

They are somewhat similar in nature, but your spell is wayyyyy more powerful.

Here is what makes it more powerful:

Condition: Unconscious VS Blindness & Difficult Terrain.
- Unconscious | Immobilizes target, grants advantage to the attacker, & automatic crit upon being hit.
- Blindness & Difficult Terrain | Attacker is granted advantage, target has disadvantage to attack, & their movement speed is halved.
Your condition is pretty much double the effect of Hungers.
Also, Hunger creates a black sphere, so if someone was attacking the creature they wouldn't have advantage because they can't see them either.
There are lots of class features to deal with Difficult terrain.
There are very few features to deal with being charmed.

Damage:
- Your spell is 3d6, scales with level, & does half on a successful save.
- Hunger has 2d6, doesn't scale, and does none on a successful save.
Again you are way overdoing it. Especially when factoring in everything else.

Save:
- Your spell saves for Int.
- Hunger saves for Dex.
Not many creatures will be proficient in Int saves let alone have any kind of decent Int score.
Most charm spells are Wis saves for a reason.

Conclusion:
- Change Unconscious to Incapacitated.
This will give the effect you are looking for without granting advantage or crit.

- Drop the damage to 2d6, do not scale with level, do not save for half.
This will keep the damage on par with with other spells relatively similar to it.
Also, the main focus of this spell should not be the damage, it should be the incapacitated state.

- Change the save from Int to Wis.
This will keep the save on par with other charm like spells.

- Add something to the effect of, "This spell's effects end early and the target takes no damage from the spell if the target is attacked, or is physically moved. (Example, being shaken by another creature or pushed by a strong gust of wind.)"
This is typically the case with charms that the spell ends when the creature is attacked.
Negating the damage to 0 upon the spell being canceled also reduces the use of the spell purely for it's damage.

Even with these changes I still feel like it's going to be at least slightly stronger than every other charm, simply because no low level charm spell has damage incorporated into it (to my knowledge). These changes will, however, make it way more balanced than what it currently is.

Spell with these changes:

Level: 3
Time: 1 Action
Duration: 1 Minute, Concentration
Range: 60 feet
Components: VSM

You target one creature, on a failed Wisdom saving throw that creature is Charmed and enters a dreamlike state imagining they have obtained their greatest desire or an immediate fantasy. Example's could be, but are not limited to, standing in the middle of a pile of gold or being reunited with a lost loved one. You do not know what the target imagines under the effects of the spell. Even though they may be standing the target is incapacitated while charmed by the spell. On a successful save the target suffers no effects from the spell. On a failed save on each of its turns, the target can spend one action rationalizing the euphoric dream is not real and attempt the Intelligence save again. If the target makes the save after initially fail, it takes 2D6 psychic damage and their mind tries to cope with he shift back to reality. This spell's effects end early and the target takes no damage from the spell if the target is attacked, or is physically moved. (Example, being shaken by another creature or pushed by a strong gust of wind.)

Classes: Bard, Warlock

 

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I would say to compare this spell to that of "Hunger of Hadar" http://engl393-dnd5th.wikia.com/wiki/Hunger_of_Hadar

Homebrew
Level: 3
Time: 1 Action
Length: Concentration - 1 minute.
Save: Int - Initially & Once per turn.
Condition: Unconscious - Grants advantage and automatic crit on hit & Immobilizes them.
Damage: 3D6 or Save for Half

Hunger of Hadar
Level: 3
Time: 1 Action
Length: Concentration - 1 minute.
Save: Dex - Once per end of turn.
Condition: Bindness - Grants advantage against. Difficult terrain - Half movement speed.
Damage: 2D6 or Save for None

They are somewhat similar in nature, but your spell is wayyyyy more powerful.

Here is what makes it more powerful:

Condition: Unconscious VS Blindness & Difficult Terrain.
- Unconscious | Immobilizes target, grants advantage to the attacker, & automatic crit upon being hit.
- Blindness & Difficult Terrain | Attacker is granted advantage, target has disadvantage to attack, & their movement speed is halved.
Your condition is pretty much double the effect of Hungers.
Also, Hunger creates a black sphere, so if someone was attacking the creature they wouldn't have advantage because they can't see them either.
There are lots of class features to deal with Difficult terrain.
There are very few features to deal with being charmed.

Damage:
- Your spell is 3d6, scales with level, & does half on a successful save.
- Hunger has 2d6, doesn't scale, and does none on a successful save.
Again you are way overdoing it. Especially when factoring in everything else.

Save:
- Your spell saves for Int.
- Hunger saves for Dex.
Not many creatures will be proficient in Int saves let alone have any kind of decent Int score.
Most charm spells are Wis saves for a reason.

Conclusion:
- Change Unconscious to Incapacitated.
This will give the effect you are looking for without granting advantage or crit.

- Drop the damage to 2d6, do not scale with level, do not save for half.
This will keep the damage on par with with other spells relatively similar to it.
Also, the main focus of this spell should not be the damage, it should be the incapacitated state.

- Change the save from Int to Wis.
This will keep the save on par with other charm like spells.

- Add something to the effect of, "This spell's effects end early and the target takes no damage from the spell if the target is attacked, or is physically moved. (Example, being shaken by another creature or pushed by a strong gust of wind.)"
This is typically the case with charms that the spell ends when the creature is attacked.
Negating the damage to 0 upon the spell being canceled also reduces the use of the spell purely for it's damage.

Even with these changes I still feel like it's going to be at least slightly stronger than every other charm, simply because no low level charm spell has damage incorporated into it (to my knowledge). These changes will, however, make it way more balanced than what it currently is.

Spell with these changes:

Level: 3
Time: 1 Action
Duration: 1 Minute, Concentration
Range: 60 feet
Components: VSM

You target one creature, on a failed Wisdom saving throw that creature is Charmed and enters a dreamlike state imagining they have obtained their greatest desire or an immediate fantasy. Example's could be, but are not limited to, standing in the middle of a pile of gold or being reunited with a lost loved one. You do not know what the target imagines under the effects of the spell. Even though they may be standing the target is incapacitated while charmed by the spell. On a successful save the target suffers no effects from the spell. On a failed save on each of its turns, the target can spend one action rationalizing the euphoric dream is not real and attempt the Intelligence save again. If the target makes the save after initially fail, it takes 2D6 psychic damage and their mind tries to cope with he shift back to reality. This spell's effects end early and the target takes no damage from the spell if the target is attacked, or is physically moved. (Example, being shaken by another creature or pushed by a strong gust of wind.)

Classes: Bard, Warlock

That's good. I like your version also! Your wording almost begs for a higher version which DOES tell the caster what the wildest dreams of the target are. When imagining this I see someone who fails the save hugging air if they miss their kids or something semi-sad / comical like that.

You gave me a couple things to think about with the movement or damage ending the spell and what not. I might debate if the target would still suffer damage or should have the 3D6 of damage but understand if I debate about ~7 HP or the 3.5 difference between 2D6 and 3D6 its been a slow day!

This spell just might require more of what I consider Wisdom to represent to save out of it vs book learning / Intelligence. There are soo few Intelligence save spells I almost want to reward those who have put points into it lol. If I want it to only apply to humanoids and intelligent creatures such as Demons and Dragons, what's my best bet? Giving it one of those "beings with 4 or less intelligence are not affected by this spell?" riders?

 

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Ahm tbh i think it is to strong, it does charm / make the target unconscious / does damage / uses a rare saving thorw (Int) / does half damage on fail still /scales with each Level.

Nope.

Would be 7th Level Minimum with all of these effects. It is an insta take out spell for 1 creature and you can Keep it up by concentration and the longer you Keep it up the more damage the target takes so it turns into an instakill spell.

There are a few effects I agree. Follow me on my level idea here. As a DM I'm a bit of everything but as a PC I'm playing a Bard. What I was imagining was the next level up from Dissonant Whispers and Phantasmal Force.

Dissonant Whispers at Level 1(!) does 3D6 damage, save for 1/2 and can expose a target to all kinds of opportunity attacks for a round.

Phantasmal Force when I've entertained my DM's with a great or terrifying idea, does a D6 of damage a round while an Intelligence low victim does all kinds of weird things trying to investigate or pull imaginary fish bowls filled with puffer fish and acid off its head at the DM's discretion. All the time the target gets hit. I've used it as a torture device for bunches of rounds but usually 3 or 4 seem to do the trick so its about 3D6 of damage not to mention what the party does to the target who is busy investigating a Chastity Belt with inward facing spikes clamped around them.

Bard Level 3 spells...I dunno. Fear is neat.

Level 4 is the highest I thought it deserved. Level 4 has some kick butt spells.

-I can Polymorph a near dead ally into the biggest baddest thing I've seen (T-Rex!?!) if the floor we're on will hold it.

Level 4 Wizard Spells include:

-Blight and its 8D8 of damage

-Ice Storm a 300 ft range and AOE(!) with 2D8 & 4D6 damage

-Phantasmal Killer which is 4D10 a ROUND damage until it saves plus frightened

-Plus the absolutely terrifying Conjure Minor Elementals if you have time or foresight to cast it (1 min casting time). 4 CR 1/2 Magma Mephits casting Heat Metal, breathing AOE Fire, soaking up HP and exploding to cause more damage when the bad guys do 22HP of damage to them when they're killed

That's why I was thinking Level 3. It is open to thinking if my party of 5 is going against one opponent who fails the save if we can do more than 8D8 of damage before the victim saves. They just might be able to....Then again we've done ridiculous things with a combo of Phantasmal Force and Dissonant Whispers on folks....

 

[Zethnos]

That's good. I like your version also! Your wording almost begs for a higher version which DOES tell the caster what the wildest dreams of the target are. When imagining this I see someone who fails the save hugging air if they miss their kids or something semi-sad / comical like that.

You gave me a couple things to think about with the movement or damage ending the spell and what not. I might debate if the target would still suffer damage or should have the 3D6 of damage but understand if I debate about ~7 HP or the 3.5 difference between 2D6 and 3D6 its been a slow day!

This spell just might require more of what I consider Wisdom to represent to save out of it vs book learning / Intelligence. There are soo few Intelligence save spells I almost want to reward those who have put points into it lol. If I want it to only apply to humanoids and intelligent creatures such as Demons and Dragons, what's my best bet? Giving it one of those "beings with 4 or less intelligence are not affected by this spell?" riders?

Yeah I could see casting at a higher level granting knowledge of what the illusion was. Seems neat.

I know there are a few spells that do say it only works on creatures with intelligence "x" or higher. Maybe look at a few of those spells and steal the wording from there.
If you do that then I would be okay leaving it as using the Int save myself. Since that also limits the amount of creatures you could cast it on, I could argue that having the damage in it is okay. But I'd still recommend 2d6.

As a little tip for more homebrew you may work on in the future. I heard this from somewhere (can't remember now) and it always stuck with me. See if there is something that already exists that is similar to what you want first. If all you want to do is change the fluff, keep it the same and do that. If what you want to do changes it enough to add something new and useful to the game that isn't already there, take bits and pieces that are already out there and put them together. Like with my Hunger of Hadar example. You really could just look at that spell and a hand full of charm spells, take the way the damage works from hunger and then replace everything else with the effects of a mild charm spell of a lower level.

 

[jgsugden]

It is close enough to Phantasmal Force that I don't think you need to add an additional spell to the game for it. I have actually used Phantasmal Force to do the two things you suggest in your spell description:

* I made a young dragon see a huge pile of treasure, resulting in it staying to collect the treasure rather than chase the party.
* I made a villain see his child in perilous danger (a child that was kidnapped and drove him to evil), forcing him to abandon attacking the party in favor of saving his kid.

My uses did not focus on happy rapture, but they could have easily. There is nothing wrong with an enhanced version of PF, especially one that folds in some enchantment, but as is, I think your goals for this spell fit within PF.