Ironwood sword, Market price ?

KaeYoss said:
And, therefore, won't deal 1d10/19-20 damage, cause clubs don't do that?

And bastard swords can't shoot lightening or talk cause Bastard swords don't do that?

As I stated above, it is a club that acts like a bastard sword, but since it is still a club the Exotic Weapon Prof.(Bastard Sword) is not needed.

We are dealing with magical enhancements here. They change the way a weapon behaves but they do not change the weapon type or classifycation in any way.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Drawmack said:
We are dealing with magical enhancements here. They change the way a weapon behaves but they do not change the weapon type or classifycation in any way.

You mean like the sunblade? Yeah, I've made a few weapons like that for my games. They're pretty cool.
 

Yeah, the sunblade's nice. But I don't think you should make a standard enhancement for that. (Or monks start walking around with a kama or other monk weapon that is magically enhanced to work like a mercurial greatsword - or have bracers of striking with that enhancement).
 

KaeYoss said:
But I don't think you should make a standard enhancement for that. (Or monks start walking around with a kama or other monk weapon that is magically enhanced to work like a mercurial greatsword - or have bracers of striking with that enhancement).

That's not actually how a sunblade works. It's not a shortsword that works like a bastard sword, with regards to damage and the like. It's a bastard sword that is wielded as though it is a shortsword (with respect to weight and ease of use). Well, ok, that's basically the same thing. :)

Actually, there is already a semi-standard enhancement for stuff like this. Its called "balanced" and its in the Arms and Equipment Guide. Basically, it allows a creature one size smaller than the weapon to use it in one hand. It's a +2 enhancement.
 
Last edited:

KaeYoss said:
Yeah, the sunblade's nice. But I don't think you should make a standard enhancement for that. (Or monks start walking around with a kama or other monk weapon that is magically enhanced to work like a mercurial greatsword - or have bracers of striking with that enhancement).

I didn't make it like that, the rules did.

Rule Quote 1)
from: SRD

CREATING WEAPONS
Only a masterwork weapon can be enchanted to become a magic weapon, and its cost is added to the total enchantment cost to determine final market value. Additional costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic weapon-half the base price listed on Table: Weapons, according to the weapon’s total effective bonus.
Creating a magic weapon has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the weapon.
A magic weapon must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any of the abilities listed on Table: Weapon Special Abilities.
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the weapon, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), and must provide any material components or focuses the spells require, and must pay any XP costs required for the spells. The act of working on the weapon triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the weapon’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the character’s currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)
At the time of creation, the creator must decide if the weapon glows or not as a side-effect of the magic imbued within it. This decision does not affect the price or the creation time, but once the item is finished, the decision is binding.
Creating magic double-headed weapons is treated as creating two weapons when determining cost, time, XP, and special abilities.
Creating some weapons may entail other prerequisites beyond or other than spellcasting.
Crafting a magic weapon requires one day for each 1,000 gp value of the completed weapon.
Item Creation Feat Required: Craft Magic Arms and Armor.
[/qoute]

Notice that no where in this list does it say anything about changing the type of the item because you do not change the type of an item when you imbue it with magical qualities. Ironwood embues a club with the magical ability of acting like a metal weapon it has been carved to resemble.

Rules Quote 2)
from, see above

CREATING ARMOR
Armor to be enchanted must be masterwork armor, and its cost is added to the total enchantment cost to determine final market value. Additional costs for the materials are subsumed in the cost for creating the magic armor-half the market value presented in the tables in this chapter.
Creating magic armor has a special prerequisite: The creator’s caster level must be at least three times the enhancement bonus of the armor. If an item has both an enhancement bonus and a special ability, the higher of the two caster level requirements must be met.
Magic armor or a magic shield must have at least a +1 enhancement bonus to have any of the abilities listed on Table: Armor Special Abilities and Table: Shield Special Abilities.
If spells are involved in the prerequisites for making the armor, the creator must have prepared the spells to be cast (or must know the spells, in the case of a sorcerer or bard), and must provide any material components or focuses the spells require, and must pay any XP costs required for the spells.
The act of working on the armor triggers the prepared spells, making them unavailable for casting during each day of the armor’s creation. (That is, those spell slots are expended from the character’s currently prepared spells, just as if they had been cast.)
Creating some armor may entail other prerequisites beyond or other than spellcasting.
Crafting magic armor requires one day for each 1,000 gp value of the completed item.
Item Creation Feat Required: Craft Magic Arms and Armor.

Notice that this also does not say anything about changing the type of armor. So if I have +5 leather armor, it's still leather armor. The max dex, ACP and spell failure remain that of leather armor even though it is giving you the protection of full plate, that's probably why it's so much more expensive then full plate.

Rules Quote 3)
from srd

Ironwood
Transmutation
Level: Drd 6
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 minute/lb. transformed
Range: 0 ft.
Effect: An ironwood object weighing up to 5 lb./level
Duration: 1 day/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
Ironwood is a magical substance created by druids from normal wood. While remaining natural wood in almost every way, ironwood is as strong, heavy, and resistant to fire as steel. Spells that affect metal or iron do not function on ironwood. Spells that affect wood do affect ironwood, although ironwood does not burn. Using this spell with wood shape or a wood-related Craft check, the character can fashion wooden items that function as steel items, such as weapons and armors. These items are freely usable by druids.
Further, if the character made only half as much ironwood as the spell would normally allow, any weapon, shield, or suit of armor so transmuted is treated as a +1 magic item.
Material component: Wood shaped into the form of the intended ironwood object

Note that this specifically states ''While remaining natural wood in almost every way, ironwood is as strong, heavy, and resistant to fire as steel.'' and ''These items are freely usable by druids.'' Since it remains natural wood in every way you have not turned it into steel, but given it the hardness, weight and fire resistance of steel. That is all. Another note, they are freely usable by druids. Not they are freely usable by druids who happen to have the proficiency to use the item that was crafted.

This is the rules forum and the rules support the assertion that the bastard sword shaped club embued with the Ironwood enchantment remains a club, but it becomes a +1 club with different damage and criticals then a standard club. It you don't think it should be this way, that is fine but take it to house rules. Yes you could have evry druid walking about your world in Ironwood Platemail with an Ironwood bastard sword but that would cost a hell of a lot of coin and destroy a hell of a lot of the woodlands that the druid is supposed to venerate and protect.
 

I would price it as +1. The only real advantage is that druids can use it. That's not as good as, say, +1d6 fire damage or a doubled threat range.
 

This is the rules forum and the rules support the assertion that the bastard sword shaped club embued with the Ironwood enchantment remains a club, but it becomes a +1 club with different damage and criticals then a standard club.

Hmm. But what happens if instead of a club that happens to look like a bastard sword, I have a bastard sword that happens to be made out of wood?

All of your evidence is based off the assumption that since the weapon is wood, it must be a club. As I see it, the material used to create a weapon does not control what type of weapon it is.
 

Using this spell with wood shape or a wood-related Craft check, the character can fashion wooden items that function as steel items, such as weapons and armors.

Call me a nut, but I always took that sentance to mean that if the spell is used during the wooden item's creation process, that the finished item is permanently Ironwood.
 

I believe the use freely portion of the spell 'Ironwood' is in reference to the removal of a druids abilities if they carry too much metal. Ironwood essentially creates a bastard sword that a druid -could- use and still keep their ability to shift and cast spells, provided, of course, they are proficient in the item created.

You logic that a bastard sword shaped club is a club is a bit faulty. A piece of wood shaped and weighted like a bastard sword is a bastard sword, not a club. The techniques for using a bastard sword vary from the techniques for using a club. The way each is held and swung are quite different. These differences are why the various proficiency feats are required.
 

Deset Gled said:


Hmm. But what happens if instead of a club that happens to look like a bastard sword, I have a bastard sword that happens to be made out of wood?

All of your evidence is based off the assumption that since the weapon is wood, it must be a club. As I see it, the material used to create a weapon does not control what type of weapon it is.

Okay let's follow your logic through. The material used to create a weapon does not control what type of weapon it is. So if I have a master woodworker create me a bastard sword from wood and then I use it in battle it will do the damage of a bastard sword? If this is the case I'll take 30 of em and you can keep the ironwood spell. If, as I suspect, it is not then you cannot use this chain of logic.
 

Pets & Sidekicks

Remove ads

Top