Irreconcilable differences(Forked Thread: When did I stop being WotC's...)

[Psion]

I've seen plenty of people chime up with why they don't like 4e based on their own impressions of it, and then get dogpiled by 4e-defenders dismissing their opinions as being false claims about what's "wrong" with 4e or having some kind of outright bias.
This board has NOT been a very friendly environment for 4e criticism.

Yep. The point is not instances of post exchanges to the tune of

4e-non-fan: "I don't like 4e"
4e-fan: "You stupid ingrate!"

(Though I could probably find some of those if I looked hard enough; but ENWorld's policy means those sorts of posters don't usually last long.)

What I see is stuff more to the tune of:
4e-non-fan: "I don't like 4e."
4e-fan: "Then you need to read it/aren't qualified to talk about it."


The point is that there have been some extremely obnoxious posters (on both sides of the argument) who, upon engaging someone on the other side of the fence, fail to read generously, pick apart meanings, misconstrue, hurl snarky rejoinders, and otherwise hold their feet to the fire all in the name of "proving themselves right" and "proving the wrong people are wrong".

 

[thedungeondelver]

I don't believe this is correct. Humans, for time immemorial, have divided themselves into "Us" and "Them", even when They are no threat to Us. Tie this to the pseudo-anonymity of the internet, and you get people behaving badly, and thus an edition war.

If people chose to remember to treat each other with respect, there'd be no edition war.

Do you hear that, you 2e, 3e and 4e players?! If you'd respect us folk who play AD&D, there'd be no problem!

Thanks for taking our side, Umbran. Much appreciated.

 

[AllisterH]

Curious question:

If someone says, "I don't like 4E because it is too much like WoW", is it a valid response to say "It plays nothing like WoW, what are you talking about" or is this seen as "attacking" the person.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Really? People have posted some of the message board outbursts from the dawn of 3E and a lot of it sounds just the same as it does now. The only thing I see now that I didn't see then was people who really liked the OGL and D&D being part of it being upset that 4E has left that behind.

If you don't believe there's a HUGE difference between the negative reaction to 4E vs. the negative reaction to 3E, then I'm sorry but nothing anyone says is going to change your opinion because you're not accepting reality.

 

[Delta]

Really? People have posted some of the message board outbursts from the dawn of 3E and a lot of it sounds just the same as it does now. The only thing I see now that I didn't see then was people who really liked the OGL and D&D being part of it being upset that 4E has left that behind.

Consider this recent poll:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...rd-edition-d-d-4th-edition-group-schisms.html

4E caused a schism in my group, but not 3E -- 14.68%
3E caused a schism in my group, but not 4E -- 1.59%
Both 3E & 4E caused a group schism -- 2.38%

That's a pretty significant difference.

 

[Delta]

I'm still incredulous that some folks 'remember' the switch from 2E->3E as smoother than 3E->4E. At least 4E has the same core mechanics as 3E.

100% disagree with all of that.

Even the designers are on record as saying they basically rebuilt the whole 4E system from scratch.

 

[jensun]

If you don't believe there's a HUGE difference between the negative reaction to 4E vs. the negative reaction to 3E, then I'm sorry but nothing anyone says is going to change your opinion because you're not accepting reality.

Or you could simply be wrong.

Personally I remember the changeover very well and it was as vitriolic and, in some cases, worse, as the current situation. Things settled down in time with those who stuck with AD&D eventually moving on. I have little doubt that the same will happen this time.

 

[Jack99]

I think we should all sit down in a circle, hold hands, and play some guitar. These debates are getting pretty pointless (and before someone says it, yes, I know we are on the Internet, and thus expected to have pointless debates), and not swaying anyone in their opinion. Let's just agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

Maybe if the 3.x players stayed out of the 4e threads, and vise versa, there would be less mudslinging around here.

 

[ExploderWizard]

I think we should all sit down in a circle, hold hands, and play some guitar. These debates are getting pretty pointless (and before someone says it, yes, I know we are on the Internet, and thus expected to have pointless debates), and not swaying anyone in their opinion. Let's just agree to disagree, and leave it at that.

Maybe if the 3.x players stayed out of the 4e threads, and vise versa, there would be less mudslinging around here.

Way to go man. Thanks for making sense and attempting to slaughter senseless bickering. Arguments have feelings and a right to life too.

 

[Psion]

If you don't believe there's a HUGE difference between the negative reaction to 4E vs. the negative reaction to 3E, then I'm sorry but nothing anyone says is going to change your opinion because you're not accepting reality.

Or you could simply be wrong.

Or, you two could have different perceptions and experiences?

Three sides to every story, folks.