Is 13th Age stealing dnd next's thunder?

[Dragonblade]

So it seems its more for role playing than game mechanics akin to say the Vampire or Torg systems?

Can you use miniatures and maps? I love role playing in the game, but I am very much in favor of heavy mechanics and realism. I like the idea that a low level starter guy, if the gods are with him, with one lucky stroke can kill a high level elite guy. (Which you can't have in D&D unless you use 3rd party crit tables).

You could use miniatures and maps, but it assumes you aren't. It may not be a game that suits you if you like heavy mechanics and realism. I would say its light to medium mechanics, but realism is definitely de-emphasized in favor of the narrative and cinematic action. Due to the exponential level scaling, and the fact that monster stats are geared to be a challenge appropriate to their level rather than grounded in any sort of realism, I don't think 13th Age would quite be what you are looking for. One shot kills of higher level foes seems very unlikely, though a good crit can do impressive amounts of damage.

 

[Pog]

You can use maps and minis, I too prefer it that way. But measurement is loose and relational, not static and precise fixing pc to grid. Rather, think in terms like: close, far away, behind etc.

 

[Argyle King]

I plan to pick up 13th Age when it comes out.

D&D Next? I'm not sure. It's not that I feel negative toward the game (even though there are things the designers are doing which I feel negative toward.) For me, the problem is more that I've settled into a sort of apathy toward the product. Part of that is because I do not feel I am part of the target audience for the game, and part of why I feel that way is because it appears I'm in the extreme minority of D&D players when I talk about I want from a rpg or when I listen to what others say they want. I'm fine with that; it just means I have less and less reason to purchase D&D products as the system (from my perspective) moves further and further away from my desires as a gamer. It certainly hasn't helped that I've been less than thrilled about how I perceive WoTC (as a company) has interacted with me (as a customer.)

To be fair though, I'll say that 13th Age seems to be overall much different from what I'd normally want. Somehow it has still managed to capture my attention though. I like a lot of the fluff I've seen. I also find some of the mechanical ideas interesting. While it has a very different focus from what I'd normally pick up, it has managed to interest me enough that I want to try it. I have no logical way to explain that. It just feels like something I want to play. If nothing else, I can take the concepts I like and port them into some of the other games I play.

 

[Abraxas]

A very nice description of 13th Age

Based on your description I will not be picking this up.

 

[Dragonblade]

Based on your description I will not be picking this up.

No worries, mate. We all like different things in our games.

13th Age is all about the players as Big Damn Heroes who make a difference. Grim and gritty it absolutely is not.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Its an amazing game and I'm totally in love with it. Its how I've always wanted D&D to be.

The descriptions I've read of it sound fairly interesting to me, like a game I'd consider running one session of as a change-up every now and then, maybe even running a campaign under some circumstances. It is, however, not even close to what I'd want out of D&D.

So I don't think it's stealing anyone's thunder, but it does seem to me that it exemplifies why one comprehensive D&D for everyone is never going to happen.

Perhaps the rpg market will eventually provide everyone's game they've always wanted D&D to be.

 

[Pog]

Perhaps the rpg market will eventually provide everyone's game they've always wanted D&D to be.

That would indeed be something wonderful ... But there might be a downside in that everyone will be playing different games! An exaggeration, but ...

 

[Ahnehnois]

That would indeed be something wonderful ... But there might be a downside in that everyone will be playing different games!

Aren't we already?

Even if we were all playing 3e D&D, each group would have different supplements in use, including third party. They'd use different optional rules from the books they had. They'd have different interpretations of the rules they used. They'd have different houserules. They'd have different styles.

I can see where having the ability to tell people that you run a certain version of D&D conveys some common expectations and helps with recruitment and orientation of new players, but once you get past that point, realistically, the games people run are extremely diverse no matter what games are being sold.

I've said this before, but I think that for most of us, if we looked in on the game of another random ENW poster, we'd have trouble recognizing what the were doing as D&D. I know I would, and that's not a bad thing.

 

[Blue]

Dungeon World and 13th Age are both D&D-style games for people who don't like D&D. If you like storygames and fantasy, they'll probably appeal. For people who like all the D&D quirks and foibles, you're probably not going to be interested in such.

I'm the exception that proves the rule. I like 13th Age, 3.x, 4e, and Next is looking pretty good. Also heard good things about Pathfinder from people I've been playing D&D with since AD&D.

Different games fit different needs and styles. 13th Age has a lot of mechanics that feel like one path of improvement of the D&D line, but it also ties in mechanically to the setting. So I expect a lot of fun from 13th Age, but if I want to run another homebrew world (I love setting creation) it'll probably be one of the D&Ds since that gives me a more generic ruleset.

I don't think that "For people who like all the D&D quirks and foibles, you're probably not going to be interested in such" is the best descriptor. It is D20 OGL, and I don't think that just liking D&D offsets the possibility of liking games with related mechanics and genre. But I understand where you're coming from - there will be overlap and if you're happy with D&D many may not see a reason to give it a try.

Frankly, I'm happy I did, but YMMV.

 

[evilbob]

I necro'd myself just to reply to this thread.

First, to the OP: your question has been well-answered by waderockett. Even a bump from Penny Arcade (worth pure gold in marketing dollars) won't ever make 13th Age bigger than Next, and they are cool with that. I think waderockett said in a different forum: all boats rise together. If Next is popular, that will open the market to other new ideas as well. (And, yes: probably the vast majority of casual gamers have never heard of either.)

Dragonblade: I liked your summary a lot. Personally, I find a lot of the mechanics to be something I'd call "4.5." The classes, character sheet, power selection, leveling process - all of them are strongly reminiscent of 4.0. A lot of monster actions/powers are as well. It's not really fair to label 13th Age that way as a whole, though: it really does a wonderful job of tying in a lot of the RP into the mechanics as well. And they have a ton of ideas that you'll find in D&D Next (I'm sure they were independently created). They are just good ideas for D&D in general. This is a great way to put it:

13th Age is amazing, and I love how it appears right now that I could run either Next or 13th Age as my base, and steal lots of bits from the other. For example, the entire magic item doc in the Next playtest can pretty much be dropped as is into a 13th Age game. Likewise, the advantage mechanic from Next is a perfect fit for 13th Age.

Conversely, I can go the other way and import Backgrounds, Fail Forward, the Escalation Die, and the mook rules from 13th Age into Next. I love it!

I have done exactly the same and plan to do exactly the same. 13th Age's strongest selling point to me is the modularity of the best ideas, and its accessibility to D&D 4.0/5.0.

Light Knight: I agree that if you like heavy simulation, this isn't your thing. It's even more abstracted than 4.0, and while I wouldn't say it was "more for roleplaying mechanics" similar to a game like Vampire might be, it's definitely headed in a direction away from what you liked. Sadly, I don't know of any way to get your hands on any of the "crunch" other than pre-ordering, either. But they say they'll be releasing their game under the OGL, with its own SRDs, so eventually this should be available. I will say that you do get a lot from the book itself, though, including lots of the designers' notes about why something was done a certain way, and how you can change it if you don't like it.


Personally, I'm really digging the game myself, and it's already changed how I will play D&D games going forward, so for me it was worth the pre-order. I just wish there were more places online discussing the game.