D&D 2E Is 5e Basically Becoming Pathfinder 2e?

[prosfilaes]

how insistent a lot of posters here are about multiclass and feats being optional. For tons of players out there they aren't.

They are optional; players just don't want to play without them. Just like there's several options of what language you can play D&D 5 in, but it turns out that players aren't terribly flexible about that, either.

 

[neobolts]

Er...how does one min-max a story?

Twilight.

 

[GameOgre]

Twilight.

Dang Min Maxers! GM was TRYING to tell a story about lost causes.

 

[MoonSong]

They are optional; players just don't want to play without them. Just like there's several options of what language you can play D&D 5 in, but it turns out that players aren't terribly flexible about that, either.

Is there an actual difference? DMs still have to have them in order to get those players.

 

[prosfilaes]

Is there an actual difference? DMs still have to have them in order to get those players.

I've tried to write up a micro-version of Pathfinder without feats, and it requires massive changes. Optional means the system is set up to let you remove feats without problems. It's optional to run 2E with all the Player's Option books, B/X with only humans, or 5E with no feats. That option doesn't negate the fact that you have to get players to buy into the system.

 

[MoonSong]

I've tried to write up a micro-version of Pathfinder without feats, and it requires massive changes. Optional means the system is set up to let you remove feats without problems. It's optional to run 2E with all the Player's Option books, B/X with only humans, or 5E with no feats. That option doesn't negate the fact that you have to get players to buy into the system.

But being able to theoretically not use them doesn't matter if you have to use them anyway?

 

[Fanaelialae]

But being able to theoretically not use them doesn't matter if you have to use them anyway?

You don't have to use them, as there are folks on these boards who have said they play without them. It's not theoretical.

I might not be able to get my group to play Paranoia. That doesn't mean that no one plays Paranoia and it's only 'theoretically' an RPG.

 

[S'mon]

I run my online 5e game w/out feats, it's certainly doable.

The only way feats would be non-optional is if all available players refuse to play without them. Or I guess if GM says you MUST all play variant humans.

 

[Mistwell]

You were spot on until you wrote this. (likely an afterthought) because everything before it contradicts the absolute in this point.

1. No one plays a game in order to suck at anything. We can do that in real life without playing a game or spending on books. Low cost to entry to suck.
2. People play in order to have a good time, hang with friends and be somewhat escapist.
3. So as long as a DM works with his or her players so everyone can accomplish "fun" together they're fine.
4. If "fun" means min/maxing to a few people then it's the DMs job to work through that.

We've all min/maxed before with a character and most if not all DMs have had to work through that with players even when there's a mixed group of min/max'ers and role players.

Reality is that everyone is a min maxer, it's just where they min max in the character concept process. If you spend more time on story then your story is maxed out. But in order to support that story, you're going to need at least one fighter on serious juice..

Sorry for being difficult.
KB.

Definitely not everyone is a min/maxer. There are a lot of very casual players. Players who sit down, pick up a pre-gen character, and go. Who have done no work to min/max ANYTHING on that character sheet, other than make up a name. This is not at all uncommon. It's the format for most games (board games, card games, etc.) and they're often at a game store sitting down to play a game which, in their mind, really isn't that much different than any other kind of game. They expect to sit and immediately start playing, and they can do that.

 

[Caliban]

Is anyone else out there in the same boat that we are? If you don't use the "so-called OPTIONAL" stuff mentioned, your chance of finding a game or players is virtually zilch?

Nope. Next question.