D&D 2E Is 5e Basically Becoming Pathfinder 2e?

[Satyrn]

You don't have to use them, as there are folks on these boards who have said they play without them. It's not theoretical.

I might not be able to get my group to play Paranoia. That doesn't mean that no one plays Paranoia and it's only 'theoretically' an RPG.

That's just what they want you to think

 

[Greg K]

Is there an actual difference? DMs still have to have them in order to get those players.

It only matters if the DM cares about having those players whom will only play if feats and multi-classing are used.

 

[Greg K]

Yeah, same thing back in the 80's. There wasn't as much a sense of there being a "world" you character inhabited; you were in whatever world you happened to be playing in. (Cue Twilight Zone theme music...)

My own personal experience was different. Outside of organized play (which I avoid like the plague), I had only seen it done twice during the 80's. The first was my one and only time of being willing to consider allowing another character provided some alterations were made. However, after informing the player in question about the changes that would have to be made to bring the character in line with the party, it became an argument and the character was not allowed. The second time was a special one-shot in which a roommate's original group decided to bring their 18th-20th level characters out of retirement for an adventure. Since I was not a player in that original game, I was asked to bring a character.

With the exception of the two aforementioned occasions, every DM with whom I had played from LA to Irvine always required a) new players to create a new character; and b) all players to do so when a new campaign was started within a group. Recently, a DM who played with the original Pasadena group back in the mid-70, required me to roll a new character for his 0D&D game which kind of surprised me as I kept hearing how the original players (which predate me by about 5 years) would allow people to bring old characters from other campaigns. I expected his invitation to include bringing my own character of an appropriate level, but I was told to swing on by and make up a character (on the other hand, his DMing style was, completely, different from what I had seen elsewhere- lots of random die rolls to determine things that most DMs whom I have encountered would simply make a quick mental decision and move on).

 

[Uchawi]

Pathfinder follows D&D, and D&D follows Pathfinder. That is expected since it shares the same type of game mechanics. Pathfinder is easy to break through the sheer amount of options, and 5E is easy to break due to quicker system mastery. These games overall still continue to have a sweat spot in the lower levels versus higher. I do believe players expect more these days due to the changing nature of games and media. It is much easier to cater to specific tastes these days. You had to be a lot more tolerant in the old days, because it was harder to find players.

 

[MiraMels]

Pathfinder is Third Edition D&D. And Fifth Edition D&D draws far more heavily on Second and Fourth Edition D&D than it does on Third, so.

 

[Grazzt]

You don't have to use them, as there are folks on these boards who have said they play without them. It's not theoretical.

Yep. We don't use feats in 5e. Never been an issue with old or new players. Chapter in the PHB with feats even mentions in the opening paragraph your DM decides if they are available or not. Players should have no expectations in 5e that all OPTIONAL rules are automatically in play.

 

[prosfilaes]

Players should have no expectations in 5e that all OPTIONAL rules are automatically in play.

I prefer to put it more evenly; players and DMs should come to mutual understanding of what rules are in play. Which optional rules are in play should be discussed before character creation. As a matter of fact, given no direction, players will create their characters using what they think are the normal rules, no matter whether they're labeled OPTIONAL or not.

 

[the Jester]

I kind of feel like comparing 5e to PF is like comparing a well-made sandwich with bread, meat, lettuce, and one condiment on it to one of those gigantic buffets you find at a casino that have an entire building crammed full of different dishes in it.

 

[Kobold Boots]

Definitely not everyone is a min/maxer. There are a lot of very casual players. Players who sit down, pick up a pre-gen character, and go. Who have done no work to min/max ANYTHING on that character sheet, other than make up a name. This is not at all uncommon. It's the format for most games (board games, card games, etc.) and they're often at a game store sitting down to play a game which, in their mind, really isn't that much different than any other kind of game. They expect to sit and immediately start playing, and they can do that.

..and if that person decides to make D&D a hobby that they play regularly with a group of friends using the same character out will come the min/maxer. It's sort of like having a baby and not knowing what it will be when it grows up but 20 years later you have a plumber, engineer or some other trade.

 

[Bigsta]

Yep. We don't use feats in 5e. Never been an issue with old or new players. Chapter in the PHB with feats even mentions in the opening paragraph your DM decides if they are available or not. Players should have no expectations in 5e that all OPTIONAL rules are automatically in play.

My wife once told me celebrating Valentines Day was optional that year . . .