D&D 5E Is 5e "Easy Mode?"

[Sadras]

Fighting and resetting the campsite should take an hour.

That might be how you rule it which is perfectly fine - but THAT is not a 5e rule.

 

[Mepher]

I rarely got to high level play in AD&D but when I did I didn't see much difference. The quadratic fighter exponential wizard is a little better balanced out. I don't think I ever got above 15th level because casters had an insane amount of power.

But high level play has always assumed fighting world-shattering enemies.

Like I said, I never saw a player make it above 14. High level play is deadly even with all the power that comes. The difference is that our current edition is designed to let the players go gonzo and get away with it. In AD&D you were fighting just as hard, if not harder, at level 14 as you did at level 4. Death was always a real possibility.

I know the discussion will turn to DMs not challenging their players enough if it isn't dangerous but just look at the published material, 5E isn't really intended to challenge. It's meant to play out the latest blockbuster movie where the hero always wins. That ok, just not how I prefer to play.

 

[Sadras]

Are there still people claiming that to be true? There was a long-running thread about this very thing here and only a couple of people still tried to claim that this was the case despite all the evidence to show it was wrong. Any combat interrupts your long rest, not a 600 round combat. That would be ludicrous.

Is there an erata on this or are we going on what should be the case?
I do remember seeing this thread here.

 

[Flamestrike]

I am not looking forward to that. I am truly torn these days about D&D. I should probably stop trying to make 5E more like AD&D and instead just make AD&D more like 5E by adding the parts I DO like. Your description of the level 20 game doesn't sound fun to me.

AD&D was the same at 20th level.

Have you DM'd AD&D to high levels before? Or BECMI, where you literally progress through the Immortal set as literal Demi-Gods?

 

[Sadras]

That has to be one of the dumbest rules in the book by far. I challenge you to run 1 hour of combat. It just doesn't happen and no party would have enough abilities to withstand an hour of combat unless they seriously overpowered it and didn't have to use any of their limited abilities. Your 5 round combat took 30 seconds.

Lets look at it realistically though. You make camp, you fall asleep. 2 hours into your sleep a group of Orcs start surrounding your camp. The watch sees them and calls the alarm. You jump out of your sleep, adrenaline pumping and you grab your sword to prepare for battle. That 30-40 second battle concludes. It's not as if your immediately asleep. You just killed those orcs. At this point you probably want to get the corpses out of the middle of the camp, you want to scout around the area and make sure there are no more enemies, might need to heal people, fix the camp, etc.

By the time you get back down to rest I would say at LEAST and hour has gone by. I don't take that rule literally, it just doesn't make sense. If you get interrupted during your long rest with combat, an hour or more is gone before everything is resolved imo.

The debate is not set up for you to challenge me on how to run my rests.
The debate is 5e as written is easy mode along with all its so-called dumb rules.

 

[Lem23]

Is there an erata on this or are we going on what should be the case?
I do remember seeing this thread here.

If you want to insist on that in your game, then go ahead (and I'm sure your players will be glad of it). If you're looking to try to argue the ludicrous case for it or persuade anyone, then you're barking up the wrong tree. Sorry.

 

[Flamestrike]

Like I said, I never saw a player make it above 14. High level play is deadly even with all the power that comes. The difference is that our current edition is designed to let the players go gonzo and get away with it. In AD&D you were fighting just as hard, if not harder, at level 14 as you did at level 4. Death was always a real possibility.

I know the discussion will turn to DMs not challenging their players enough if it isn't dangerous but just look at the published material, 5E isn't really intended to challenge. It's meant to play out the latest blockbuster movie where the hero always wins. That ok, just not how I prefer to play.

 

[Sadras]

If you want to insist on that in your game, then go ahead (and I'm sure your players will be glad of it). If you're looking to try to argue the ludicrous case for it or persuade anyone, then you're barking up the wrong tree. Sorry.

You too are shifting goal posts. Minigiant said that one cannot rest in the forest until ALL are killed within. That is very much a houserule. 5e Raw is very much easy mode. I do not have to run rests any which way - all I have to prove is that it is easy mode. It is for those that wish to challenge that statement to prove otherwise.

 

[Oofta]

Like I said, I never saw a player make it above 14. High level play is deadly even with all the power that comes. The difference is that our current edition is designed to let the players go gonzo and get away with it. In AD&D you were fighting just as hard, if not harder, at level 14 as you did at level 4. Death was always a real possibility.

I know the discussion will turn to DMs not challenging their players enough if it isn't dangerous but just look at the published material, 5E isn't really intended to challenge. It's meant to play out the latest blockbuster movie where the hero always wins. That ok, just not how I prefer to play.

Maybe I just played with different people/expectations. Basically most combats went something like: "Oh **** we're all going to die". Then the caster would go and leave a big giant smoking crater somehow.

But I totally get that different people want different things. No game could ever work for everyone.

 

[Lem23]

You too are shifting goal posts. Minigiant said that one cannot rest in the forest until ALL are killed within. That is very much a houserule. 5e Raw is very much easy mode. I do not have to run rests any which way - all I have to prove is that it is easy mode. It is for those that wish to challenge that statement to prove otherwise.

I refer you to my previous answer.