D&D 5E Is 5e Heroic, or SUPER-heroic?

[Paul Farquhar]

The definition of Superhero fiction isn’t power level. As has been said comic book heroes range in power from the sublime to the ridiculous as various authors chose. It’s down to the themes and style.

There is no definition of "superhero fiction" that holds water. There are no themes and styles exclusive to "superhero fiction" and every theme and style is included within it.

I.e. Everything is Super. And when everything is Super nothing is.

 

[Zardnaar]

Both, epic characters lean towards superheroes IMHO.

 

[Coroc]

And I gutted out most magic items. The Swords of Aquaa are from there (which was enabling the Swashbuckler/ Battlemaster flight). The Rod of Nine Parts is in there, the Sphere of Annhilation (and the rod of the sphere) is in there, as is the Hand of Vecna. They're signature magic items from the Adventure. The PCs are also rewarded with magic items of their choice by Mordenkainens Proxy (in addition to Epic boons etc).

The Axe of the Dwarven Lords was treasure I placed in Aceracks Tomb (after buffing it to a 20th level optional adventure).



I've already mentioned the Swords, but Winged boots and the Broom arent even Rare - they're both uncommon! The PCs at the end were literally hanging out with Mordenkainen, and going to Toe to Toe with a literal Demi-God (after travelling both the planes of existence; and through time).

Flight isnt a big deal; most classes have some method of Flight literally baked into the class; usually starting in early T2 (all the Spell casters, Paladins, Eagle totem Barbarians, Eldritch knights etc).

Not that it matters, by the time they're in T3, literally most things they encounter can fly as well. Or teleport or whatever.

Darn you gave out real artifacts like cookies and claim that style of campaign is typical for D&D?

I assume 3e with its built in magic item level had some more magic items than 5e or even 1e/2e, but this?

You know that, (at least in 2e) most artifacts came with devastating curses, even the good ones. So having a PC fly at will teleport through the multiverse and X-ray vision, only to succumb to a rotting disease within 3 weeks, because this is the artifacts designated curse does not sound super heroic to me.

A party of five with ten artifacts at their hand is not the new Avengers, but 99 problems you never thought of, when you first went of, to clear out that goblin cave!

 

[TheSword]

There is no definition of "superhero fiction" that holds water. There are no themes and styles exclusive to "superhero fiction" and every theme and style is included within it.

I.e. Everything is Super. And when everything is Super nothing is.

There are always blurring of boundaries of course. Also something doesn’t have to be exclusive in order for it to be typical of a genre. A genre is usually typified by a range of features, some or all are usually present.

Here are some features usually present in the superhero genre...

• Specific Superhero characters
• A suite of Supervillains that don’t as a general rule die, or at least not for long.
• Secret identities/dual personality
• A lack of permanent death
• Continuity of the same characters across several incarnations/timelines/universes
• Cross Overs Superhero stories
• Borrowing elements from other genres - 20th C Crime into Galactic Sci-fi (where a lot of the confusion stems from)

I would say of these common themes the majority are not common for a typical 5e game.

Most villains are dead at the end of a module, with the exception of a small few rarely encountered ones, Tiamat, Accerak etc.

Very few 5e PCs maintain dual identities.

While raise the dead is sometimes used. It isnt ubiquitous and it is heavily dependent on the game world, levels of campaign, and style of play.

Rarely do players play the same PC in different incarnations - certainly in my experience.

The nature of leveling means PC groups are usually created for a campaign and stay in that campaign. Rarely do PCs chop and change between multiple campaigns.

For that matter I’m not sure genres cross over anything like they do in Superhero fiction. It’s rare that Sci-fi themes interact with medieval fantasy. Barrier peaks and Iron Gods are very much an acquired taste!

With all these things, you can choose to play the game that way. But it is by no means standard 5e.

 

[Scott Christian]

As far as fiction, not sure why it was in quotes. If you mean a novel, Soon I Will Be Invincible is an excellent example of superhero fiction. Fun read and has all the characteristics of the above.

Maybe superhero fiction is like the Supreme Court's definition of porn: "I don't know how to define it, but I'll know it when I see it."

 

[Fanaelialae]

It's relevant to note that treasure in 5e, including magic items, is completely up to the DM. If you choose not to distribute magic items, you're not even following a variant. That's RAW. DMG, bottom of page 133:

"You can hand out as much or as little treasure as you want."

Meaning that @Flamestrike 's campaign with multiple artifacts is perfectly valid. However, a campaign with no magic items whatsoever is equally valid. A party that is geared for war with golf bags of magic weapons and belts of giant strength is equally as valid as a party that has nothing more than a random assortment of esoteric magic items (folding boat, etc). Granted, the former is likely to have a significantly easier time with combat encounters.

I tend to use randomized treasure myself, so while the party will have a good amount of magical treasure by level 20, it won't be tailored to them. It's only as optimized as the randomness of the dice allow for. I've yet to see a full party that can all fly, for example, even at level 20.

 

[Flamestrike]

The definition of Superhero fiction isn’t power level. As has been said comic book heroes range in power from the sublime to the ridiculous as various authors chose. It’s down to the themes and style.

Themes and style? 20th level PCs are dealing with Armies of demons or undead, across time and alternate realities, and fighting literal Gods for the fate of the world!

How does that differ from the Avengers?

 

[Flamestrike]

Darn you gave out real artifacts like cookies and claim that style of campaign is typical for D&D?

None of the PCs you quoted from my post have artifacts. And I've already addressed this question on the last page in a different post.

 

[Flamestrike]

Meaning that @Flamestrike 's campaign with multiple artifacts is perfectly valid.

What campaign with multiple artifacts? The only campaign I'v ever ran with 'multiple artifacts' has been Age of Worms, and those artifacts (Hand of Vecna, Rod of many parts) are part of the adventure.

Most published adventure paths contain an artifact in them (or a set of legendary items or weapons). And most of the published adventures only go to T3, at most.

According the the DMG tables, in a campaign featuring magic items, a party of PCs is expected to come across around 100 items over the journey from 1-20 (presuming you're using the tables as presented in the DMG). 20th level PCs should have a legendary or two, a very rare or rare or two, and a smattering of uncommons.

You dont have to use magic items of course. But 'magic items' are a pretty core part of core DnD since... well 1E.

Using 'default' magic items rules from the DMG here (presuming you're using magic items, which 99 percent of campaigns are).

 

[Oofta]

Themes and style? 20th level PCs are dealing with Armies of demons or undead, across time and alternate realities, and fighting literal Gods for the fate of the world!

How does that differ from the Avengers?

They can be, that doesn't mean they are. I've run several campaigns up to 20th level (to 30th in 4E) and there were never armies of demons or undead, time travel doesn't work in my world. Over decades and multiple editions and decades an alternate reality has made one appearance (discounting the occasional dream realm). The PCs have never directly fought literal gods. I think I've had one story arc that dealt with the fate of the world because I find that trope kind of boring.

Don't assume your personal play style is universal.