D&D 5E Is 5e Heroic, or SUPER-heroic?

[Ancalagon]

My spouse and I were watching the New Legends of Monkey, a "Journey to the West" inspired action show. It's cheesy but entertaining. Lots of gods and legendary heroes.

... and those gods, those legendary heroes? They are like... level 7-9 characters?

It made me realize that D&D characters, especially at level 5 and above, are not heroes. They are super-heroes. And perhaps a big bold style is best suited for the game?

The gritty, grubby stuff should be reserved for other games (warhammer, older editions of D&D like B/x or a modern retroclone, the GLOG... And you could have these heroes be "reborn" or "ascended" as young "gods" in the world once they reach level 5 - they now have 5e powers and hit points, they are more colorful, they heal fast, they are hard to kill...

The Monkey King and the GLOG Funnel

So we have been watching The New Legends of Monkey , a tv series based on Journey to the West . It's "fun but cheesy", not the best adaptat...

slugsandsilver.blogspot.com

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Yes, D&D characters are superheroes. But that is because the fantasy heroes, like Conan, who inspired D&D are superheroes (without the spandex and moral code).

Back in the 1980s I remade a party of AD&D PCs as characters in the Golden Heroes superhero RPG. Abilities where pretty much unchanged.

 

[Coroc]

Well the monkey king is a classic Asian legend, and he did take on buddhas and other real powerful mythic beings just with his wits chuzpe and his Bo which he could transform from toothpick size up to colossal. He was playing so many pranks to the pantheon that Buddha got angry and threw a mountain on him, burying him for good (eventually, that is )

 

[Coroc]

On your topic, the superhero question:

Are D&D characters powerful? Yep compared to e.g. DSA characters they are (most of the times).

Their magic capabilities are very high on higher XP levels.
Are they superheroes though? Well, let us see:

• Fly at will, through outer space if needed? No, unless you are of a winged race, and then it is only maneuverability class B
• X-ray vision or the like? Nope. You got some divination skills though for certain caster classes.
• Being really inhumane strong, like able to lift and move a whole truck? No. They are far stronger than most world elite professional athlets, but they are not "Superman"
• Invulnerable? No, though they can take in their package of hurt.

So they are above the things that normal IRL people could accomplish, and above many characters in other - more low magic, realistic and gritty - systems. But they are not "marvel-class" beings.

Are they heroes then? Hm, I would say that is dependent on their deeds also isn't it? If they are evil aligned and out for no good they could be villains as well , no?

 

[Tonguez]

But they are not "marvel-class" beings.

What is a marvel class being?
Is it a guy wearing magical power armour that allows him to fly and shoot lightning bolts? or one with a magical bow and arrow? or Barbarian who can leap off cliffs and tear through multiple challenges after drinking his potion of strength?

 

[Coroc]

What is a marvel class being?
Is it a guy wearing magical power armour that allows him to fly and shoot lightning bolts? or one with a magical bow and arrow? or Barbarian who can leap off cliffs and tear through multiple challenges after drinking his potion of strength?

No, I rather thought of superman, dunno if this counts.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

What is a marvel class being?

No, I rather thought of superman, dunno if this counts.

A million comic geeks just cried out in horror!

 

[TheSword]

5e is whatever you want it to be. The level of fantasy is largely dependent on the level the players and DM want to play at.

Healing, AC and Hp and the mechanics that support them are abstract terms and can always represent rolling with the blows.

I can create any number of characters that resemble Ned or Arya stark. Sure there’s magic, but my wizards don’t have to act as if they wield unlimited Cosmic POWER.

The OP’s suggestion on doubling down on the superhero-esq elements just makes it harder to play 5e the way I like and It sounds like you can already play the way you like.

My ideal fantasy implementation of 5e is like the world of Witcher 3. Yes there is magic though the big powerful stuff is rare and the simple stuff is easily accessible. Heroes can do things that normal folks can’t, but then again heroes are the exception not the norm. They can heal, they can get simple magical effects, they can attack fast and they can take damage. I wouldn’t dream of describing the world of Witcher as super hero though.

 

[Flamestrike]

Are they superheroes though? Well, let us see:

• Fly at will, through outer space if needed? No, unless you are of a winged race, and then it is only maneuverability class B
• X-ray vision or the like? Nope. You got some divination skills though for certain caster classes.
• Being really inhumane strong, like able to lift and move a whole truck? No. They are far stronger than most world elite professional athlets, but they are not "Superman"
• Invulnerable? No, though they can take in their package of hurt.

High level DnD PCs do all that and more.

 

[TheSword]

High level DnD PCs do all that and more.

But they don’t have to. Flight is not ubiquitous, it has a cost - namely not being able to cast any other concentration spells, or for a limited time. Or for needing a flying mount.

Your play style may not be the same play style as me. Maybe my group isn’t fond of specific classes or subclasses. Maybe we have different quantities of magic items or avoid certain types. Maybe there is more or less focus on downtime.

What I love about this game is that it can be a broad church, where everyone can play how they want.