D&D 5E Is 5e the Least-Challenging Edition of D&D?

I'm not seeing a problem here... this was how we did flanking in 4e and it wasn't a big deal. It made movement matter since you weren't stuck into a single square by on lone goblin. You could easily flank these guys, but THEY could flank you just as easily in return, so you had to be careful.

Of course, flanking in 4e granted 'combat advantage', which was a basic condition that ammounted to +2 to your attack rolls.



You could just target the DEX save or the CON save though, right?... not sure if we needed multiple ways to screw over someone who has good AC but bad DEX... Note that 5e Fighters (and Barbarians and Paladins) aren't proficient in Dexterity saving throw. Even with high DEX they could get screwed over by a bad DEX saving throw while a Rogue, Ranger or a Monk has a much greater chance of avoiding the effect.
No it's not... that's not even close... I pulled this off the 4e phb292
1583731180249.png

compared to5e's...
1583731455074.png

you can literally dash, cunning action dash again, action surge to dash a third time, and while hasted take another action to dash a fourth time in circles around a creature without suffering an AoO unless you leave their reach.
 

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No it's not... that's not even close... I pulled this off the 4e phb292
View attachment 119341
compared to5e's...
View attachment 119342
you can literally dash, cunning action dash again, action surge to dash a third time, and while hasted take another action to dash a fourth time in circles around a creature without suffering an AoO unless you leave their reach.

Guess I remembered wrong... or w played wrong... I has been a decade ya know
 

what's that?... sounds like you are agreeing with me that they overly simplified at least one too many things but hiding that plate of crow you are eating behind sarcasm & changing GMs as a whole who might want a tool in their toolbox like that to me specifically.

Either that or you are agreeing with me and saying that wanting a tool like that in the gm toolbox is badWrongFun.
Trying to please absolutely everyone would have ended up being an unholy mess. It was never possible.

To paraphrase the great sage and scholar Spock "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the Tetrasodium."
 

It's been said so many times but I suppose it could be said again...

But just because a game made a decision that you, personally, don't like, it does not mean that the game designers were trying to spite you or tell you that your preference is badwrongfun.

Creating a set of rules involves decisions. Inevitably, the decisions you make will please some people and annoy others. It involves giving up on some possibilities and advantages in order to preference what makes this game unique. No game can be all things to all people.

Just because I like to play basketball does not mean I think soccer players are insulting me because they dribble with their feet instead of their hands.

You can argue whether a particular decision was GOOD, or WORTH IT, or BETTER or WORSE than the alternatives. You can argue the merits of alternative ways of doing things. But crying that you are being persecuted for supposed badwrongfun every time you find a rule in D&D that you don't like isn't constructive. It needlessly presumes malice where none was intended, and makes it hard to talk about the actual merit of particular rules or alternatives because you are centering your complaint on personal victimhood rather than the actual merits of the rule.
 


Frankly, the fact that D&D 5e not only lacks Touch AC, but combines all AC for all body parts into a single number, makes it impossible to challenge players. There should obviously be separate torso, leg, arm, and head AC, modified by stance, combat conditions, and zodiac sign, and a wounding system deep enough to account for where you struck your opponent, with what sort of instrument, and with how much panache (it's unbelievable that after all these years, D&D still lacks a panache system). I think we can all agree that any combat system that treats the blow of a club to the thigh the same way as an arrow piercing a chain hauberk and tearing the pectoral muscle can hardly be thought of as sufficient to provide a challenge to the players!

And what of the eventual toll that all this exercise takes on the body? I have scoured the rulebooks for determining how to adjudicate the effect casting too many spells has on the manual dexterity of a wizard. Rules for acquiring arthritis and carpal tunnel syndrome are strangely absent from this game, no doubt evidence that everyone from Gary Gygax to Monte Cook to Rob Heinsoo to Mike Mearls believes that anything between accurate modeling of the long-term effects of excessive finger ballet and nothing is BadWrongFun, and merely wish to inflict suffering and humiliation on us poor players.
 

Frankly, the fact that D&D 5e not only lacks Touch AC, but combines all AC for all body parts into a single number, makes it impossible to challenge players. There should obviously be separate torso, leg, arm, and head AC, modified by stance, combat conditions, and zodiac sign, and a wounding system deep enough to account for where you struck your opponent, with what sort of instrument, and with how much panache (it's unbelievable that after all these years, D&D still lacks a panache system). I think we can all agree that any combat system that treats the blow of a club to the thigh the same way as an arrow piercing a chain hauberk and tearing the pectoral muscle can hardly be thought of as sufficient to provide a challenge to the players!

And what of the eventual toll that all this exercise takes on the body? I have scoured the rulebooks for determining how to adjudicate the effect casting too many spells has on the manual dexterity of a wizard. Rules for acquiring arthritis and carpal tunnel syndrome are strangely absent from this game, no doubt evidence that everyone from Gary Gygax to Monte Cook to Rob Heinsoo to Mike Mearls believes that anything between accurate modeling of the long-term effects of excessive finger ballet and nothing is BadWrongFun, and merely wish to inflict suffering and humiliation on us poor players.

:)
Rolemaster anyone? Rolemaster | Rolemaster RPG | Rolemaster Role Playing Game | Iron Crown Enterprises
 


No they decided that anything capable of piercing absurd AC was badWrongFun because they didn't impliment something between that and nothing.

The "absurd AC" is absurd in itself. It requires +3 armor, +3 shield, and extra items / buffs / class abilities.

...without suffering an AoO unless you leave their reach.

That forces characters to remain in that reach or suffer the opportunity attack. It also forces the character the move to specific positions to gain the flanking advantage. This is something the PC's and monsters both do, not just the PC's.

Position advantage is a form of soft control manipulation.

I though it looked to easy when I first read it too. Then I tried it for a while. The flanking option works well.

The ease is also dependant on terrain features. A character backed into a corner cannot be flanked, movement can be reduced by rough terrain, and a character by a precipice is better off shoved.

Use the environment to flesh out the combat and the options are complemented in their use. Your argument stems from an open white room. ;)
 


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