Is casting a spell with the Evil descriptor an Evil act?

[Hypersmurf]

In any case, based upon the evidence in detect evil, I'd say that shapechanging into a spectre (or any undead) or a creature with an Evil subtype (assuming that subtype), is an evil act.

I don't agree that Protection from Good creates evil; it creates something that a Detect Evil spell can detect. Not identical. In our shapechanged wizard example, Detect Evil is detecting someone who is not evil; evidence that not everything Detect Evil detects is actually evil.

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

I thought the definition of Descriptors handles this question:

The descriptors are acid, air, chaotic, cold, darkness, death, earth, electricity, evil, fear, fire, force, good, language-dependent, lawful, light, mind-affecting, sonic, and water.

Most of these descriptors have no game effect by themselves, but they govern how the spell interacts with other spells, with special abilities, with unusual creatures, with alignment, and so on.

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful would appear to have to interact with Alignment.

 

[Artoomis]

I don't agree that Protection from Good creates evil; it creates something that a Detect Evil spell can detect. Not identical. In our shapechanged wizard example, Detect Evil is detecting someone who is not evil; evidence that not everything Detect Evil detects is actually evil.

-Hyp.

What is an "evil aura" if not evil?

You can sense the presence of evil. The amount of information revealed depends on how long you study a particular area or subject.

1st Round
Presence or absence of evil.

2nd Round
Number of evil auras (creatures, objects, or spells) in the area and the power of the most potent evil aura present...

If something is detectable by Detect Evil it is evil. It says so right at the beginning of the spell description - the "presence of evil."

This is a simple as it gets for a rule, isn't it?

 

[Infiniti2000]

I don't agree that Protection from Good creates evil; it creates something that a Detect Evil spell can detect. Not identical. In our shapechanged wizard example, Detect Evil is detecting someone who is not evil; evidence that not everything Detect Evil detects is actually evil.

Detect evil explicitly detects the "Presence or absence of evil." Thus, everything that registers with the spell is, by definition of the spell, evil. Even a good undead creature can stun a good spell caster who uses detect evil when, and I quote, "the strongest evil aura’s power is overwhelming." It even goes on to further say "evil creature." It doesn't say "evil or undead creature" or any other wording that would make it as seemingly innocuous as the [Evil] descriptor.

 

[Xanterith]

Ok, from what I can tell the whole problem with [evil] can be shown in one spell:

Deathwatch

On the surface, for a good cleric, this looks like a great spell. Let's you know who is hurt and how bad, basically come up with a strategy on how to keep people alive.

I can see that. Looks good on the outside. But what is the spell actually doing? Let's not just look at the ends and say "Oh that spell is good because it tells me who to heal" but rather look at the entirety of the spell, it's full function, purpose and result.

"Using the foul sight granted by the powers of unlife" - ok...that sounds pretty darn evil. What foul powers of unlife would grant this ability to those who would use it to preserve life? Instead I would think that they would grant it to those who most want to deal death....evil people....So in this case perhaps it is not the deity blocking the good cleric from using the spell, but rather the evil powers not granting it.

The spell then goes on to describe the different levels of near death. Pretty mundane there. But the last line says that it grants the ability to see through feign death. What person in need of healing would fake being dead? Instead, this would allow an evil person to tell that someone was a faker and needed to get put over. That is the function of the last part.

After reading the spell and thinking about it, this spell is DEFINITELY a good candidate for the evil descriptor, and while does not directly do anything evil, it sure as hell is not on the good side of the fence.

I think instead of looking at spells with the [evil] descriptor and saying "My good cleric should be able to cast that spell because it has a good result" or "My good mage would have no problem casting that because I can use it for good" we should more be saying "Why is it evil and why shouldn't I use it?" I think the answer to that question is a lot easier to come up with than trying to patch something together to explain the first for each instance of the [evil] descriptor.

After looking at what I wrote, I now can without uncertainty see why this spell has the [evil] descriptor, if as I have hypothesized above the purpose of this spell is for the caster to determine the weakest person in the AoE with the intent of slaying them, then this spell is in direct support of what defines a person as evil:

“Evil” implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others.

Saying there is not fault in the spell is very similar to many arguments used by others that state the responsibility of the action lies on the shoulders of the person doing, and any ends that they use to reach this goal are not responsible, an argument I wholeheartedly disagree with. I think that responsibility does, in part, lie with the actual means and I think the [evil] descriptor in a small way tries to flag this.

Good and Evil in DnD are not like Good and Evil in the real world. In DnD Good and Evil are quantitative forces, and therefore have direct effects.

 

[Hypersmurf]

What is an "evil aura" if not evil?

Something radiated by undead, clerics of evil deities, evil creatures, evil outsiders, and evil spells and items, that can be detected with Detect Evil.

If something is detectable by Detect Evil it is evil. It says so right at the beginning of the spell description - the "presence of evil."

I disagree. If something is evil, it can be detected by Detect Evil. It says so right at the beginning of the spell.

But in the middle of the spell, it also states that it detects evil auras... and we know that those may be possessed by things that are not evil.

Example: Magic Missile states that "A missile of magical energy darts forth from your fingertip". Does this mean that later in the spell, when it describes the ability to gain additional missiles, the text is in error? Additional missiles are not "a missile of magical energy", after all!

But no; the first sentence is true, but it is not comprehensive. A missile of magical energy darts forth, but in addition, more missiles may also dart forth.

Detect Evil detects the presence of evil. This is true. It also, however, detects the strength and location of evil auras, whether or not those evil auras result from the presence of actual evil, as defined further on in the spell than the first sentence.

You can't read the first line of a spell and stop.

Chaotic, Evil, Good, and Lawful would appear to have to interact with Alignment.

And they do, as laid out in the Cleric and Druid class descriptions.

-Hyp.

 

[Xanterith]

The possesor of the evil aura may not be evil, but the aura is.

A good person can be possesed by a demon and radiate evil. This doesn't change the the alignment of the person, but does indicate the PRESENCE of evil. Presence is the key word, and that fact that evil can be measured in DnD. Basically it means evil is here, and this is how much, but has absolutely no reading of how much or how little good is also there.

In order for the spell to function, evil has to be there, or something that is trying to look like evil and fool the spell, but the purpose of the spell is to...detect evil. Let's not overthink this too much.


*There was something here, I retract it as it was stupid, or the rules are stupid, one of the 2.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I'll try and answer with a question:

What's the [Evil] tag telling us?

That a good-aligned cleric cannot cast the spell, and the spell effect shows up when you use Detect Evil. Apparently, not much else.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That a good-aligned cleric cannot cast the spell, and the spell effect shows up when you use Detect Evil. Apparently, not much else.

Don't forget the Evil Domain Granted Power!

-Hyp.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

I didn't say anything about changing alignment. I am saying that the creation of an evil aura (not just an [Evil] one) is an evil act. You're bringing evil into the world, fostering it, and that's not an evil act? I don't see that as a large leap at all, but the very next step in a logical sequence.

Cast [Evil] spell --> create evil aura --> evil act.

Obviously, nothing in the rules say "This is an evil act." so the goal here is to provide enough evidence to support that statement. If no evidence is enough, then I refer you back to the baker example.

IMC casting spells with any alignment descriptor cause you to have an alignment aura for a short duration of time, but no amount of Protection From Good spells will turn you evil. You're tapping into an effect that is itself aligned, in that weird way that D&D turns ethics into metaphysics, and the effect is that you get some alignment on you. Your alignment doesn't change, but it's like walking through an Evil cobweb. After a minute or so it blows away, and your aura returns to normal.

I don't see a reason to descibe the progression from "ech, I've got evil all over me" to "I'm evil" as "logical". It seems to be two different things.