D&D 4E Is character death acceptable in 4e? If so, how often?

[Flipguarder]

Ive always thought that as DM my job was to make sure that everyone has fun. But when you get down to it, that just boils down into finding fun in what the party finds fun.

 

[Nail]

Good point, DrSpunj.

I wonder what responses we would get if we asked all the players:

• "Do you think death is a possibility in DrSpunj's 4e game?",
• "How often has at least one PC been close to death in our game?", and
• "Should the likelihood of death in DrSpunj's game be increased, decreased, or remain the same?"

As you rightly point out DrSpunj, I only know for sure how I would answer those questions.

 

[KarinsDad]

...and even that might be too broad. That is to say "Who gets to define what's most fun for the group?"

The group gets to decide.

If PC deaths are occurring too frequently and the group thinks that sucks with regard to fun, the DM should adjust accordingly. If he does not, do not be surprised if the players walk, find a new DM, or minimally start grumbling.

Creating a PC, even with 4E, is time consuming. A player should not be forced to go through this process more than once for a given campaign except for extreme extenuating circumstances (e.g. like Raise Dead does not exist in the campaign world).

My personal opinion is that PC deaths should occur within reason: this frequency being the important question, but probably no more than 1 PC dying every two levels unless the group (not just the DM) decides ahead of time that a greater frequency is desired or allowable.

And, a PC should be allowed to come back from the dead if that is what the player wants. Players should not get bent out of shape if a PC dies since death should always be a possibility, just not a probability. But, it is the player's PC, not the DM's. The DM should allow the player to have the PC be brought back to life. This might be resource costly. The group might have had to sell some of the PC's items to manage this. This might sidetrack the current adventure. So be it. But, the DM should be flexible and so should the player.

I understand the concept of "in my world, creatures rarely or never come back from the dead" and that's ok, but DM's should tell players this ahead of time and also tell players how often he expects PCs to die if this is the case. The rules allow for resurrection, so if the campaign world is going to deviate, the players should be told.

The other reason PC deaths should occur is to allow a player to explore other PC options such as different races and classes. Many players would not even think of changing PCs until the PC actually dies. This gives these types of players an opportunity to change a PC if this occurs and they are so inclined.

 

[Nail]

In reading over this thread again, this statement popped out at me again:

In tough battles with bad luck or tactics (or especially both!) on the PCs part I think one PC death is an acceptable part of the game.

As a long-time DM (1e, 2e, other games, 3.0e, 3,5e) it's always been the case that one PC can die, with a string of bad luck combined with a poor choice. The Bad Guy can get a few lucky rolls, or the player with the least tactical acumen can get separated from the group, or perhaps there's a save-or-die roll that goes badly.

Except for the save-or-die thing, I've just assumed the same is possible in 4e. This thread is leading me to conclusion that I'm mistaken. Put another way:

"It's just really unlikely that only 1 PC will die in 4e, at least without exceptional focus-fire from the DM."

Is that true? Is there no way to "accidentally" kill just one PC, but the rest of the group is okay (and not near TPK-land)?

 

[KarinsDad]

"It's just really unlikely that only 1 PC will die in 4e, at least without exceptional focus-fire from the DM."

Is that true?

Basically yes.

Is there no way to "accidentally" kill just one PC, but the rest of the group is okay (and not near TPK-land)?

This typically requires unusual circumstances like the party is split up, or the Leader is the one that is down, or an unconcious PC gets caught in an Area Effect.

 

[keterys]

Some of it depends on what type of terrain you use. If being stranded on the collapsing rope bridge away from your healer means that you fall unconscious from enemy fire and fall off the bridge to take 5d10 falling damage... well death is a lot more likely.

 

[lukelightning]

As a player, I have so many character ideas floating around in my head, and if my character dies then it's like that cliche about "when one door closes, another one opens.." — it's just a chance for me to play another one of my many character ideas.

And really, there is nothing keeping you from re-creating the same character. Your halfling rogue Wingus died? Make his brother, Dingus!

 

[Nail]

This typically requires unusual circumstances like the party is split up, or the Leader is the one that is down, or an unconcious PC gets caught in an Area Effect.

Player tangent: I think I'll suggest our healers split up a bit, so they're not both easily hit by the same effect.

 

[kilpatds]

Except for the save-or-die thing, I've just assumed the same is possible in 4e. This thread is leading me to conclusion that I'm mistaken. Put another way:

"It's just really unlikely that only 1 PC will die in 4e, at least without exceptional focus-fire from the DM."

Is that true? Is there no way to "accidentally" kill just one PC, but the rest of the group is okay (and not near TPK-land)?

Well, low level fights against monsters with push effects on a rope bridge over a 1000 ft. fall. That will do it. Or similar fights next to lava. Things the DMG warns against.

Other than that... Yeah, it's true.

 

[Caliber]

Except for the save-or-die thing, I've just assumed the same is possible in 4e. This thread is leading me to conclusion that I'm mistaken. Put another way:

"It's just really unlikely that only 1 PC will die in 4e, at least without exceptional focus-fire from the DM."

Is that true? Is there no way to "accidentally" kill just one PC, but the rest of the group is okay (and not near TPK-land)?

For the most part, I think so. It's hard for monsters to achieve the type of spike damage they'd need to effectively take out one PC while leaving the rest relatively hurt; IMO that type of stuff mostly came about because of full attacks or from save-or-dies.

Still, there are still some monsters that have save-or-die-ish effects, where if you fail a save so many times, you fall over dead. Those could result in outcomes like you mention.

In pretty much every other case I can think of, even when only one or two PCs died, the rest of the party was generally exceptionally banged up as well. I don't really think this is a bad thing; it's more part and parcel of diminishing the chance of completely random death.