D&D (2024) Is Counterspell less frustrating now?

[Uni-the-Unicorn!]

It just slows the game down and makes it dumber. That's literally the sole impact it has. The game becomes more boring and less tactical, great, awesome thanks. The smarter your players are, the worse the impact, too (conversely with dumb-as-rocks players it's fine).

Man, you love your insults!

It is not an issue in our games, but we only have one spellcaster!

 

[Charlaquin]

On the one hand, I'll miss the drama of rolling to try and counterspell a higher level spell. On the other, I love the simplicity of this and the thematics. I do think it should explicitly force a concentration check. If monsters get to use LR, players should get to use Warcaster (or any other concentration helping feature).

Oh, yes! That would absolutely sell me on the save being Con.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

cast spells from 65ft away?
Not every one is a sorcerer with distant spell.

I'm sorry I literally don't believe you if you're claiming your casters are routinely more than 65ft (13 squares) away from the enemy ones.

It is not an issue in our games, but we only have one spellcaster!

Do they have/memorize counterspell?

 

[Shadowedeyes]

Better than it was for me certainly.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

As you don't lose the Counterspell spell slot if it fails to do anything... this means that the usual 'I counterspell the counterspell that is about to counterspell a counterspell' dance can now repeat even more often.

 

[Scribe]

As you don't lose the Counterspell spell slot if it fails to do anything... this means that the usual 'I counterspell the counterspell that is about to counterspell a counterspell' dance can now repeat even more often.

If anything, attempting the Counterspell MUST cost the player the slot, succeed or otherwise. We cannot just have things going around for free thats nonsense.

Otherwise, counter wars? On the stack?!

 

[Amrûnril]

I think the 2014 version of counterspell introduces a lot of interesting strategic dynamics. Do you put yourself in a vulnerable position to keep the opposing caster from moving out of spellcasting range? Do you use your reaction to counter an opposing counterspell, or save it for the spell the opponent casts on their turn? Do you burn your high level spell slot on a counterspell, or save it and roll the dice with a lower level spell slot?

As for the playtest version, the use of a CON save seems to me like it shifts the flavor to being about interrupting the caster rather than about interrupting the magic itself. I'd prefer to see counterspell keep working based on spell levels and arcana and add a feat or class feature to allow martial characters to interrupt spells by forcing CON saves.

 

[Shadowedeyes]

The 2014 version's problem is that it can utterly ruin a boss monster that is a spellcaster. A reaction to negate the enemy's turn? It can completely change an encounter to a cakewalk. The new version at least you can throw legendary resistances at it. It's certainly not ideal, but I think it's better than what we currently got.

 

[NaturalZero]

From the powergamer perspective, counterspell is great. If a few people in the party have it and use it every round, you can just stop the DM from ever using casters. For anyone who thinks it's just fine, just watch the climactic final battle of the first season of Critical Role.

I feel like people who think it's fine either don't face enemies with spellcasting that often, so i doesn't get used much, or they purposefully hold off on using to shut down enemies in order to play nice with the DM.

 

[tetrasodium]

Its the same logic as con saves for concentration.

There is actually an interesting flavor there, that though spells are powered by your "mental stats" there is a physical connection to the body. This is why concentration is a con save, and why damaging the body can disrupt magic even though a caster can juggle a dozen other mental tasks but keep a spell going just fine.

I don't think there is anyone missing that logic, but it doesn't play out well because of how spellcasting monsters are built to be glass cannons with a general emphasis on the glass.

A big part of the problem stemming from there is that wotc is still kinda designing counterspell as if players are the primary target for chauin/oppressive counterspelling. Counterspell has a different use case than a spell like disjunction where players are the generally exclusive/primary target. Players are rarely going to be the target of counterspell to begin with. Even if a player is targeted by counterspell they have the social contract to shield them from chain oppressive counterspelling by rightfully pointing out the way doing that makes the GM look like they are adversarially singling out the targeted player. Monsters & the GM don't really get to lean so hard on the social contract like that.


There should simply be a defined mechanic for a spellcraft check (casting stat mod+prof+focus mods) & the save should just be counterspell caster's DC spellcraft check so it doesn't need to influence spellcasting monsters away from being glass cannons