Is D&D all about murder and pillaging?

[Aus_Snow]

Power Kill

Power Kill seems relevant to this thread. It's a meta-RPG construct that highlights the sometimes horrific violence and anti-social behaviour casually indulged in by some characters.

Wow. Thanks CJ, that article is absolutely hilarious!

Nice find.

 

[vagabundo]

For me, DND is about having fun with family and friends - it just so happens that we find murder and pillaging fun!!

 

[Dice4Hire]

The questions really are:

Is your game about Murder and such?

and

Does your group enjoy this?

If both answers are yes, then more power to you. Actually, not matter what the answer to Q1 is, as long as Q2 is yes, then more power to you.

 

[Dausuul]

It is also a certain jaded cynicism that has taken over many of the games and gamers that I have played with. To show that I think we have all had that "new" gamer join the group. You know the one where they have never played an RPG before and they started interacting like a "real" person in the situations presented by the DM. As opposed to the jaded cynic who wants to cut to the chase all the time in the game. Usually it means, "Its evil, I attack".

My experience has been the other way around--the guy who's never played an RPG before and acts like it's a video game, instead of trying to get into character and interact the way experienced players do.

Of course, that might have to do with the fact that "It's evil, I attack" is a really great way to get yourself killed in my campaigns... legal questions aside, you will occasionally run into stuff that is way bigger and badder than you are.

I'm not saying my player characters don't sometimes behave like criminals--in fact, I've taken to lampshading this tendency in game, with NPCs commenting on how the PCs move through the world like a tiny roving vortex of destruction--but I've found that players become less psychotic rather than more as they gain experience. In fact, my PCs have begun pushing hard to negotiate with everything that might be open to negotiation.

(It's also worth noting that even in classic, old-school, "kill the monsters and take their stuff" D&D, the PCs' behavior is far from unrealistic. Gangs of raiders going into the territory of some militarily-weaker culture to kill them and take their stuff is not exactly unprecedented in human history, and the raiders were usually lauded as heroes by their own people.)

 

[Quantum]

No, the goal of any D&D or swords and any sorcery type game is to get the phat loot. This is especially true in computer rpg games.

For example, in Diablo the only way to build up your gold was to kill and loot lots of things. Because the best stuff in the games cost lots and lots of money.

This is true especially for World Of Warcraft. It's all about getting your character up to 80 then going on raids for those high tier sets to make your character ubermensch, the biggest baddest guy around so you can brag about how uber your character is and the rest of the peons isn't.

Knights Of The Dinner Table illustrates this concept beautifully. That comic is far closer to the truth than anybody really cares to admit.

But it doesn't have to be that way, that's just by far the most common goals of any game.

 

[Vartan]

Is D&D the game about killing and pillaging? Yes. IMO absolutely.

Do you have to play it that way? Nope. You don't.

But, if you were to boil down D&D to what is this game about - I'd have to say it's about the aquisition of power through swashbuckling adventure ((aka Killing stuff and taking its treasure.))

I remember a great quote from a game designer. He was asking a fledgling designer what his post-apocalyptic game was about, and it came down to "hope." The more experienced game designer replied (in so many words) "Then why doesn't your game have a Hope mechanic?"

In that context I think it's telling that 4th Edition includes Action Points. Out of the box it's about action. I use the game for more than just Action, but that's the core of D&D (and always has been, even before they had Action Points).

 

[Remathilis]

Why? You made some good points.

There are some factions that would argue D&D is NOT about killing; its about overcoming challenges and combat is actually the LEAST effective method of doing it (these people tend to play editions where XP from GP is much more important than monster XP). Additionally, there are people who would detest the idea that D&D and video games remotely fall into the same realm of escapism (comparing it to a game like Halo or WoW).

 

[ProfessorCirno]

I remember a great quote from a game designer. He was asking a fledgling designer what his post-apocalyptic game was about, and it came down to "hope." The more experienced game designer replied (in so many words) "Then why doesn't your game have a Hope mechanic?"

In that context I think it's telling that 4th Edition includes Action Points. Out of the box it's about action. I use the game for more than just Action, but that's the core of D&D (and always has been, even before they had Action Points).

I think it's more telling that, right out of the box, 95% of the character sheet is dedicated to combat ;p

D&D has, with each edition, been more and more focused on the combat. 4e is just the next iteration - and as such, the new deepest one.

As for the "hope" mechanic, that's honestly a really stupid quote. PS:T was about identity and understanding, but you didn't get "identity points." Fallout was about exploring and understanding a post apocalyptic society, and yet again, there was no "understanding" mechanic behind it. Silent Hill 2 didn't have a freak out mechanic. If anything, that's a mark on what's terrible about the video game industry today.

 

[Nork]

Is Hamlet all about murder?

Just because a story involves a lot of violence, doesn't mean the story is all about violence.

Of course, D&D without a plot or story is a genocidal home invasion murder-robbery simulator.

So just because there is a lot of violence does not mean there is a story.

I worry about people who play RPGs to roleplay their desires to prove their worth by dominating things that are different and weaker than they are. I also worry about people who play football for the very same reasons.

I don't worry about people who play RPGs and enjoy roleplaying the thought process of what a person in a situation might do, even if the roleplaying is violent. Hamlet is pretty violent after all. I don't worry about someone who plays football to experience the personal challenge of trying to do their best to win and to embrace an ethos of sportsmanship where the value of an activity is derived from the journey and not the result.

So I think the ultimate answer is that a lot of it comes down to intent. So it isn't a question of "is D&D this or that", but a question of "what kind of person is playing D&D".

 

[Deuce Traveler]

"Is D&D all about murder and pillaging?"

Yes, but it is also about love...

I still remember the day that my paladin claimed her... his first vorpal sword...