is D&D evil? Thoughts please

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: is D&D evil? Thoughts please

The problem with kreynolds' responses is described in one of his posts, where he admits to enjoying the hostile reaction provoked by inflammatory statements. Rather than demonstrate empathy and an interest in a reasoned argument that employs evidence as its tools, he makes statements which he knows are subtly offensive, "sly digs"...if you will.

Oh, damn. I've been figured out. Nobody has ever known me that well. SurgicalSteel? Would you marry me?

It's like this. I don't sugar coat anything. I don't lie. I tell it straight up. Always have. Probably always will. I don't find it entertaining when I offend someone. I don't find it entertaining when I upset someone.

I do, however, find it extremely entertaining when people act like children and throw temper-tantrums because of a simple misunderstanding.

Sorry if you thought that you actually made some progress by psychoanalyzing me, but alas, you did not.

 

[Mercule]

Re: Re: Re: Re: is D&D evil? Thoughts please

The two christian principles involved are as follows...

1) A christian must be concerned about reputation. A christian with a good reputation in a community is one more likely to influence the behavior of others. Therefore if a thing has the appearance of evil and can harm the reputation then the Christian should abstain from the behavior that might mistakenly cast doubt upon their reputation.

Somehow, I just don't think this meshes very well with much of what Christ did/taught. Case in point, one of his closest companions (some even believe his wife) was Mary Magdaline, a former prostitute.

That'll pretty well hose your reputation, especially in that day and age. Strangely enough, it hasn't seemed to significantly impare his long-term impact on the world.

2) A christian should not engage in action which offends a brother. This does not preclude trying to change a brothers mind but generally speaking christians are to avoid creating problems between members of the church.

As opposed to confronting the priesthood and generally making fools of them in public? Sounds like it would definitely preclude aggrevating the church hierarchy so much that it was influence the courts to have you nailed to a 2x4.

Pick another couple of "core Christian ethics".

 

[Cpt. Anonymous]

Is D&D evil? I think not. Some say that people killed because of D&D. There were 7 wars in france on the subjuct of christianity. The crusades where a slaughter in the name of christianity. The holocaust happened because one guy hatted Jews. Almost every war in the history of earth started because some one was being "holier than thou."
Another thing, people tend to get very opinionated and biased. In colorado spings a nice upstanding minister brought a katana to his chapel and visciously chopped dolls of pokemon because he thaught that they were of the devil. A man I know spent 3-4 hours yelling at me and saying I was a satan-worshiper because I read harry potter once.
I don't deny that some people who playu D&D are evil. I'm just saying it is like anything else, guns, money, swords it isn't evil. it is only evil if the person using and/ or playing it is evil.

 

[Mercule]

D&D should not hold any fear for a Christian. In fact, I can honestly say that I would not be the devout Christian I am today without D&D.

My upbringing left me lukewarm to Christianity. No religious orator has ever really said anything that snapped my attention and I've heard speakers from quite a few, Christian and otherwise.

Playing D&D, I developed an interest in the time periods D&D was modeled after; Medieval and Roman history. As part of that, I studied the early church. My studies led me to two conclusions. 1) There have always been a lot of hypocrites who will commit horrible acts in their own self-interest in the name of a cause in which they do not believe (this is not unique to Christianity). 2) I really believed in what Christ and his followers taught.

That's the rather condensed version. I can sum it up even quicker, though, and phrased for the born-again target audience.

Only through D&D could I have come to accept Christ. Without it, I'd still be lost. If it could lead me toward God, how can you say it is evil?

I don't expect my experiences to be the norm. Never-the-less, it shows that D&D is neutral at worst.

 

[CrusaderX]

Is D&D evil? I think not. Some say that people killed because of D&D. There were 7 wars in france on the subjuct of christianity. The crusades where a slaughter in the name of christianity. The holocaust happened because one guy hatted Jews. Almost every war in the history of earth started because some one was being "holier than thou."

And almost every war in the history of earth would have happened anyway, even in no religion ever existed.

War is a by-product of human nature, not religion. Religion is an excuse. Take away the religion excuse, and a new one can and will easily take its place.

A man I know spent 3-4 hours yelling at me and saying I was a satan-worshiper because I read harry potter once.

Why did you let him yell at you for 3-4 hours? I'd walk away after a few seconds of someone yelling at me, let alone hours.

 

[theburningman]

Mercule wrote:

Playing D&D, I developed an interest in the time periods D&D was modeled after; Medieval and Roman history. As part of that, I studied the early church. My studies led me to two conclusions. 1) There have always been a lot of hypocrites who will commit horrible acts in their own self-interest in the name of a cause in which they do not believe (this is not unique to Christianity). 2) I really believed in what Christ and his followers taught.

This is in large part what happened to me in college, and pretty much in the same way. When I was in high school, I was surprised one day in world history class when Jesus was mentioned in the history book as being an important historical figure. Like I said in my earlier post, I had wondered for many years what the difference was in believing in God and believing in Zeus. No matter how many times people I knew told me how they had talked to God, experienced miracles, been led to their car keys by their guardian angel, etc., I knew that I had not seen God, at least not in the way they seemed to have. But when I saw in a secular history book that a man named Jesus of Nazareth actually walked the earth once, that he wasn't some mythical figure, it got me interested in knowing more. That led to a lot of research and discussion in college.

Nowadays, I still don't know if I would call myself a Christian because I have trouble with the herd mentality involved in organized religion. I'm not saying that all people who go to church go just because everyone else does, but it does happen. For many people, church is more a social event, or something that is done because they've always done it. Have I gone to church since these "facts" have come to my attention? Yes, I have. Have I seen these behaviors first hand? Yes, I have. Does every church-goer fit into this category? No, of course not. But although I will never stop trying it, the church and the organization that goes along with it have always been an ill fit for me.

So, as I said, I don't know if I would call myself a Christian. But I do believe in God, I do admire Jesus, and I do believe that he sacrificed himself to redeem the sins of humanity. I try to quietly live in a way that follows his teachings, what he said and did. I don't always succeed, but I try, and that's enough for me even if it's not enough for some of the people around me.

 

[Keth Ogreslayer]

This may have been said before (I just couldn't read the last 35 posts or so), and it may be completely wrong, but I think my 11-year old sister brought up a good point. She was in the room when I was decribing the post to my mom and my sister said, "How can something be evil? Only people can be evil." Anyway, that's my (or her) 2 cents.

 

[radferth]

Re: Web links for and against DND

Being really bored at work today, I acutally read Dark Dungeons and a couple of its links by William Schnoebelen. He seems to provide some fairly lucid reasons why people who believe as he do should not play D&D, but I am guessing most of them already don't. He claims to be a former gamer and witch high priest, although in his case the occult lead to the gaming. According to him he was asked to consult on the magic spells for the game. (Seems to me if anyone consulted on the magic, it was Tolkien or Vance.) Some of the more interesting claims he makes are that an employee of TSR quit because he felt the rituals in the game were to realistic (what rituals he might be refering to I cannot say), and the the Necronomicon and the Cthulhu mythos are real. If Cthulhu is real, I think my gaming is a relatively minor thing to be worried about.

Danny

te a few web links I have collected (some of them may be repeats of earlier posts):

against DND:
http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp - The Chick Tract!
http://www.chick.com/articles/dnd.asp Straight Talk on DND - another article on Chick's Site
http://cultlink.com/sentinel/d&d.htm The Christian Sentinel, Feb 1999
http://logosresourcepages.org/dnd-cc.html Lgos Resource Page
http://www.generationyes.com/yes/children.htm Generation YES (Youth Against Satan) sounds off
http://athos.rutgers.edu/pub/soc.religion.christian/faq/d&d A FAQ about DND (Not to be confused with Facts about DND)

For DND:
http://www.locksley.com/6696/rpgsatan.htm - one version of the Pulling Report by Stackpole
http://www.trhickman.com/Ethics/Ethic1.html From Tracy Hickman (who happens to be Mormon)
http://www.pvponline.com/rants_dd.php3 From Scott Kurtz, promininent Web Comic Artist
http://www.geocities.com/mcschan/Index.htm A teacher at a Presbyterian elementary school reflects on his hobby and ministry, with guest articles
http://members.aol.com/MarkJYoung/confess.html Confessions of a DND Addict
http://www.efn.org/~bstoner/xiand&d.htmlChristians & DND
http://www.paganlibrary.com/humor/dungeons_and_dragons.php Christianity - Concerns for the AD&D Player (This is more of a rant than anything else)
http://www.co.jyu.fi/~np/rpg/DnD/ Read this one closely - it isn't what you think.

All links have been checked for validity recently.
Hope these help/are interesting/make you think/offend someone.

jericho

 

[Mercule]

Re: Re: Web links for and against DND

If Cthulhu is real, I think my gaming is a relatively minor thing to be worried about.

Ain't that the truth.

Then again, if Cthulu is real, maybe this fellow has stumbled upon "secrets not meant to be known". The resulting insanity would explain why he might think D&D is evil.

 

[Darraketh]

"How can something be evil? Only people can be evil."

True, so true.