Is Dragon Magazine even *Relevant* anymore?

[Crothian]

By your defintion then there are no player oriented books since only the core books (DMG, PHB, MM) are allowed without DM permission. I disagree with that thinkling. A Player oriented book just has to target the players, it has nothing to do with what they are allowed to do in their game. Only that the player will want to use it.

 

[Jdvn1]

You see why I think it's an inherent problem now. I think a real player-oriented book/magazine would be light on the feats and prestige class and such, but give lots of clever ideas on how to use the existing rules to do a variety of things. Also to give tips on in-game strategies.

I think the Character Class articles on the Wizard's site is an example of a player-oriented article. Most of them are kind of basic, but I think each one is better than the last. And most of the character articles (I forget their name at the moment) in Dragon magazine.

 

[Jdvn1]

A Player oriented book just has to target the players, it has nothing to do with what they are allowed to do in their game. Only that the player will want to use it.

Also: By your definition, every book is player oriented. Even the monster books (like Draconomicon) have stuff players will want to use. So it's one extreme or the other? Manual of the Planes even has PrCs and spells.

 

[MonsterMash]

The Problem with Dragon

There was a recent thread here on ENWorld which indicated there appeared to be widespread dissatisfaction with Dragon Magazine. This got me to thinking: What is Erik going to do to fix this? What should he do? This lead me to the wider question and sneaking suspicion that I didn’t really know if he could do anything, for the reason that, just maybe, Dragon has lost its relevancy.

Okay, I agree with this and find that Dragon is not an essential purchase - ENWorld Gamer and Signs and Portents are more use to me, and even they are not regular purchases.

What about Dungeon?

In contrast, from my perspective, I buy Dungeon every single month. There is never a doubt as to whether I will buy it or not or whether I will find is useful. You see, Dungeon gives me something that no one else is supplying right now – and that’s quality RPG adventures.

In the 21st century, crunch has inundated us and adventures are rare. So the adventures are what I prize the most.

In the 80’s, Adventures were commonplace and Rules were rare. So Rules were what we prized the most. We’ve come full circle.

I'd deny that Dungeon is the only source of quality adventures - Goodman and Necromancer are both still producing good products, but I accept that Necromancer's products now tend towards being larger mini campaign style rather than smaller adventures.

I'm another one that would welcome seeing the Polyhedron style mini-games back in a publication, but I'm not sure how big that group of people is.

 

[Erekose]

Part of the issue with Dragon for me is expense. As I live in the UK I have to mail order Dragon on an issue-by-issue basis. Stick P&P on the issue price and for the cost of three Dragon issues I can pick up a new WotC hardback from Amazon.co.uk.

It all comes down to value - which do I get the most value from?

A random assortment of things in Dragon or a book on a theme I'm specifically interested in?

No choice really!

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

I think what rik has done with Dungeon is wonderful. Therefore I trust him to put right the Dragon ship.

I doubt, however, he will be able to make the magazine all things to all people. There are things I would like to see that others wouldn't. For instance, I would like to see an article on people in the industry. I would like to see detailed NPCs for use as villains or heroes. I would like to see 'new ways at looking at creature x.' But as I said, just because it would interest me, doesn't mean that same stuff would interest others.

 

[NeuroZombie]

I quit picking up Dragon about a year ago, after reading it religiously since 3e first came on the scene. Even in the time that I was picking it up, I have yet to actually use ONE article IMC (edit: actually, I take that back, I have used an Alchemy article in one of the issues). In all fairness, I have offered some of the options in Dragon to my players over that time, but none of them were interested. So I quite reading it.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

First, I don't believe this for even a scintilla of a moment. They *are* online - they just dont happen to be *here*. That I DO accept.

The majority of people in general in the US aren't online. There is no reason to believe pen & paper gamers are any different. What reason do you have for thinking the majority of gamers are online, or, to be more precise, online and getting game info? Again, this is what I mean by the myopia, and, to be honest, provincialism of online gamers. They assume everyone else is online. It's just not the case. Not as many people are online as many seem to think.

 

[JoeBlank]

>>>
(I hate the "new player race/core class a month")
>>>

To be clear, neither of these things are a part of the magazine anymore. To see where the magazine is headed, pay less attention to issues 323 and 324 and more attention to issues 329 and 330.

--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon

You had me at hello. The content changes have been appreciated, and if you work out the subscription mailing kinks then I'll be 100% aboard. For instance, I can't compare 329 and 330 because my copies have not yet arrived.

I started reading this thread because I agree with much of what Steel_Wind had to say, at least his observations of the problems but not so much with his proposed fixes. For instance, I was very glad to hear Erik say "no adventures in Dragon". I've read Dragon for years, and during that time I was almost exclusively a player, and only rarely a DM. A friend tried to convince me years ago to subscribe to Dungeon, when we were not even playing the game, because he enjoyed reading the adventures. I did not, reading adventures did nothing for me. For the player that I was all those years, the adventures that appeared in Dragon were wasted on me.

Now that I am DMing more often, I am loving the new Dungeon. But keep the adventures there.

 

[diaglo]

You had me at hello. The content changes have been appreciated, and if you work out the subscription mailing kinks then I'll be 100% aboard. For instance, I can't compare 329 and 330 because my copies have not yet arrived.

[Ghost quote] Ditto[/Ghost quote]