Is Everything a Power Now?

[Agamon]

They use the same mechanics in how they attack and use abilities. Everything does.

Same mechanics? Generally speaking, yeah. The wizard doesn't use Rock, Paper, Scissors while the Fighter rolls a d20. I think it's a good thing to have a unified mechanic.

But even classes that share the same role have different attacks and abilities that set them apart. How they all use a unified mechanic is a good thing...

 

[ForbidenMaster]

None of those are mechanic differences in how their abilities work. That's like saying "No, see, rogues that use daggers and rogues that use short swords are COMPLETELY different, because one as an extra +1."

They use the same mechanics in how they attack and use abilities. Everything does.

That analogy doesnt fit because the two rogue still are combat based "strikers" that do the same things. That has nothing to do with my previous post.

Again, statistically they all use the same base, on that I agree they are all mechanically the same, but on the implementation of the mechanics they are completely different. Thats my point, and in your initial post you seemed to be stating that everything is the same. Its just not.

 

[Cheesepie]

The martial classes can, at times, do extraordinary, superhuman things.

And why the hell not?! They're heroes!

 

[fuzzlewump]

Attack Fighter Exploit 1
At-will Standard Action - Weapon
Target - One Creature
Attack: Strength vs. Armor Class
Hit: [W] + Strength

Burning Hands Wizard Spell 1
Daily(Vancian Magic) - Arcane Close Blast 3
Target - All creatures in Close Blast 3
Attack: Opponent's Reflex Defense - 10 vs. 10 + [Intelligence Mod]
Hit: 1d4/level
Miss: Half - Damage

So, there are two 3rd edition 'powers' in 4th edition form. Looks like the only difference, seeing as how both are just doing damage, is in who rolls the dice. So, 4th edition is changing whose hand the dice goes in when rolling to see if a spell hits. Using this same format, attacker rolls, defender has a static amount, for all combat is a good thing. The other thing that changes is a mindset. In 3rd, fighters have their attacks and feats, wizards have spells, completely different chapters, even if they are doing the same thing: damage. By the same thinking some of us use now, we could call each fighter attack a spell, as well as each combat maneuver (Bull Rush, Grapple, etc) spells. Oh, and breaking down a door can be a utility spell.

As far as melee classes using crazy exploits; yes, welcome to 4th edition. Explain it however you want to in your game, magic, chi, or just amazing feats, but the principle is here to stay. In my opinion, none of the melee powers I've seen so far are completely unbelievable, but I await any extreme examples to consider.

 

[Cheesepie]

I always hated the Fort/Ref/Will saving throws system anyway. Especially when I was playing a beguiler, the DM basically gets to roll and see if I get to have fun this turn. I don't know why, but it feels a lot better having that roll in my hands.

 

[Thasmodious]

I always hated the Fort/Ref/Will saving throws system anyway. Especially when I was playing a beguiler, the DM basically gets to roll and see if I get to have fun this turn. I don't know why, but it feels a lot better having that roll in my hands.

I agree completely. I hate watching the DM look up from behind the screen and say, "he saved". Even more, I hate being the DM looking up from behind the screen and telling a caster "he saved". I do feel like I'm robbing the player. On the other hand, I have thus far enjoyed looking up from behind the screen, grinning, and saying "you are dazed, immobilized, poisoned, basically screwed."

 

[VannATLC]

I guess at some point when you put everything in the same generic yellow can it loses some of the appeal is all. I get the game reasons.

I think this has contributed to the more "computer game" feel to the game as well. It's less interested in the feel it's going to portray than the game utility.

The feel of a game is important to me I guess. It's one of the reasons I never really liked most of 2nd edition. 1st, basic D&D, and 3rd edition for me.

Saying this, I understand I'm talking about quickstart rules.

Well.. SDO.. The feel is the DM's job.

I've never understood why anybody ever thought different. 4th is a new, balanced, tested well scaling set of mechanics for combat/hazard encounters. They are the bits that I would generally say are difficult for most people to create themselves.

Then there is a setting, which is somewhat implied, but mostly divorced from the rules, and then the actual published settings, which supply flavour.

You seem to be somebody who would have no troubles

 

[Stalker0]

While the wizard and fighter use the same mechanics for powers, there powers are quite different. Wizards lay down tons of conditions and area effects, while fighters focus on small numbers of targets around them and do big pain.

But even with that, rituals is the real divider. Sure a fighter "can" learn rituals, but no one beats the wizard. Starts with free rituals, gets more free rituals as he goes up, and will have a far higher arcana skill, which is the leading force of most rituals.

 

[SDOgre]

Well.. SDO.. The feel is the DM's job.

I've never understood why anybody ever thought different. 4th is a new, balanced, tested well scaling set of mechanics for combat/hazard encounters. They are the bits that I would generally say are difficult for most people to create themselves.

Then there is a setting, which is somewhat implied, but mostly divorced from the rules, and then the actual published settings, which supply flavour.

You seem to be somebody who would have no troubles

I don't mean the feel of my adventures so much as a feel of the rules. The tone, the direction it points you, the limitations, the taste and smell of them. The more specific the mechanics become, and this edition is more specific than anything since 1st edition, the stronger the feel, or flavor of the game.

Also, how do you know the game is balanced and well scaled game? I hope it is, but from mine and others impressions of KotS it seems like it might not be.

Again, I hope it is. I love D&D. I love the concept of new editions, the possibility of improvement. Shoot, every edition they seem to steal my ideas. But I want to be realisitc with what it is. In that way I'll be better equipped to make changes later on.

 

[VannATLC]

I'm curious as to what you think doesn't scale?
The unification of mechanics in this edition makes for more predictable, and easier, tinkering, as well.

Er.. I admit I'm still not sure what you mean by the feel of the rules. I don't think any rules have ever imparted a feel or a flavour.

The flavour text, maybe, and generally, spells and powers try to impart flavour, but they are not rules, per-se.