Forgive me if I sound pretty ignorant (because indeed I am of this issue), but I'm curious to know if the d20 logo is really worth all that for you companies to forgo the freedom of going OGL. I mean you can pretty much do anything you want besides plagiarism if you go OGL: discuss character creation, make your own rules that may seem "parallel" to D&D's, and just about everything. I guess the question is, "Can you go OGL and still refer to monsters in the 'MM' and talk about skills and feats in the 'PHB' without specifically mentioning 'MM' or 'PHB'?" I'd appreciate any enlightenment from the d20 companies out there?
Is going d20 really worth it?
- Thread starter Sir Edgar
- Start date
Ranger REG
Explorer
You can go OGL and use the text in the System Reference Document. If the monster is in the SRD, you can talk about it without referring to the Monster Manual. If you want the skill and feat in the SRD, you can reprint them into your product.Sir Edgar said:
Is this the answer you seek?
Gallowglass
First Post
there is a point here...
Actually, given how tricky the section 15 of the OGL can be, and the phenomenal volume of OGC already created, it has often struck me that if I were trying to publish stuff under either the d20 STL or the OGL, I'd stick to SRD and self-created material, as I doubt I'd have teh time, money or inclination to exhaustively scour all the OGC out there for something I could use instead, not to mention the effort required to get section 15 correct...
Actually, given how tricky the section 15 of the OGL can be, and the phenomenal volume of OGC already created, it has often struck me that if I were trying to publish stuff under either the d20 STL or the OGL, I'd stick to SRD and self-created material, as I doubt I'd have teh time, money or inclination to exhaustively scour all the OGC out there for something I could use instead, not to mention the effort required to get section 15 correct...
I am not an expert, but I do know that when I am scanning the dozens (or scores) of books on the store shelves, I'm looking for d20 material I can use in my game. The d20 logo lets me know that a product can be used in my D&D game. If it doesn't have that logo (and there is no OGL logo, and one would be near-meaningless anyway) I can only assume that it is a stand-alone system.
'The d20 license isn't really useful to the game-designer (not directly), it is useful to the publisher who wants to identify her product's compatibility with D&D. And to the consumer who is looking for third party D&D material. And to the store-owner who likes to shelve books according to the system they belong to.
So, my advice (for what it's worth) is that if you don't have the d20 logo on the cover you had better have a really sweet game concept (and even better cover design) to make me walk accross the room and scan it long enough to realize that it is fully D&D compatible.
Cheers.
'The d20 license isn't really useful to the game-designer (not directly), it is useful to the publisher who wants to identify her product's compatibility with D&D. And to the consumer who is looking for third party D&D material. And to the store-owner who likes to shelve books according to the system they belong to.
So, my advice (for what it's worth) is that if you don't have the d20 logo on the cover you had better have a really sweet game concept (and even better cover design) to make me walk accross the room and scan it long enough to realize that it is fully D&D compatible.
Cheers.
Psion
Adventurer
This may be echoing MThibault, but from a consumer standpoint, the d20 logo represents a certain level of expectations about the familiarity they will have with your book before they even crack open the cover. The question for you is: is your concept something that is worth forgoing that?
If you really intend to make something that is a long ways from the d20 norms to begin with, it might be best if you go OGL rather than try to shoehorn it in or make tricky little token obesciances to the d20 STL, because the end result can be pretty ugly and/or mislead customers who or looking for something true to the d20 norms.
If you really intend to make something that is a long ways from the d20 norms to begin with, it might be best if you go OGL rather than try to shoehorn it in or make tricky little token obesciances to the d20 STL, because the end result can be pretty ugly and/or mislead customers who or looking for something true to the d20 norms.
cthuluftaghn
First Post
I concur with MThibault. The d20 logo is 50% of what sells your product. In the "d20 community", I'd say the vast majority of gamers won't even look at a book that doesn't bear the d20 logo, for exactly the reasons mentioned above.
The OGL and d20 license rules really aren't all that bad. The d20 logo usage guide is in pretty straightforward english, and not very long. Most of it is just standard game definitions.
As far as paragraph 15 of the OGL... that's no big deal either. You only need to mention it if you are using OGC references from someone else's work. If you're not, then don't worry about it. If you publish something, and an obscure publisher that you've never heard of cries foul, then research their claim, and edit your paragraph 15 according to their request. Most OGL publishers (the exception being WotC, themselves) are very helpful, understanding, and accomodating.
If you do wish to use someone else's OGC, send them a note to let them know. Often, you'll get an appreciative response, with instructions of exactly what to put in your paragraph 15.
The OGL and d20 license rules really aren't all that bad. The d20 logo usage guide is in pretty straightforward english, and not very long. Most of it is just standard game definitions.
As far as paragraph 15 of the OGL... that's no big deal either. You only need to mention it if you are using OGC references from someone else's work. If you're not, then don't worry about it. If you publish something, and an obscure publisher that you've never heard of cries foul, then research their claim, and edit your paragraph 15 according to their request. Most OGL publishers (the exception being WotC, themselves) are very helpful, understanding, and accomodating.
If you do wish to use someone else's OGC, send them a note to let them know. Often, you'll get an appreciative response, with instructions of exactly what to put in your paragraph 15.
Sir Edgar said:
Perhaps another way to look at is is "Is my product so good / special / whatever that it doesn't need the d20 logo?" Licensed products, like EQ RPG and Farscape, are obvious examples of products for which the license is more important than the d20 logo. And, of course, non-d20 rpgs like Vampire are selling quite fine without the d20 logo.
One thought is to put out your product on the shelves as d20, and the OGL copy on your website. The sold product would have a password to access the OGL copy, or the consumer could buy the OGL copy from the website. (I'm assuming that if a customer got to the point of clicking around your website, they'd be more interested in the product than the d20 logo.)
Cedric.
aka. Washu! ^O^
By the way, I'm not a publisher, just curious about the system.
Anyhow, I don't know why you even need the SRD if game mechanics cannot be copyrighted. Is the Lord of the Rings RPG using the SRD? What about the Everquest RPG? It seems the companies that printed these games used a lot of the game mechanics in 3e D&D and they may have indeed followed the guidelines of the SRD, but did they (legally) have to?
Also, about paragraph 15, can you tell me more about it? I don't quite understand the implications of it fully.
Which brings me to original content... Do you any of you companies out there do any research on Google or whatnot to see if an idea or name has already been done or used? After over 25 years of D&D and other fantasy RPG's, I would think everything's been done and every name has been used. I'm also thinking that sometimes even names have been used in the same context, too.
Also, I don't understand how a certain d20 company put "Vortigern" as its Product Identity. Vortigern is a historical name and doesn't belong to anyone. I guess again it depends on context, but it seems even the name Gandalf which is also a pseudo-historical name can be protected.
Anyhow, I don't know why you even need the SRD if game mechanics cannot be copyrighted. Is the Lord of the Rings RPG using the SRD? What about the Everquest RPG? It seems the companies that printed these games used a lot of the game mechanics in 3e D&D and they may have indeed followed the guidelines of the SRD, but did they (legally) have to?
Also, about paragraph 15, can you tell me more about it? I don't quite understand the implications of it fully.
Which brings me to original content... Do you any of you companies out there do any research on Google or whatnot to see if an idea or name has already been done or used? After over 25 years of D&D and other fantasy RPG's, I would think everything's been done and every name has been used. I'm also thinking that sometimes even names have been used in the same context, too.
Also, I don't understand how a certain d20 company put "Vortigern" as its Product Identity. Vortigern is a historical name and doesn't belong to anyone. I guess again it depends on context, but it seems even the name Gandalf which is also a pseudo-historical name can be protected.
EarthsShadow
First Post
I can say this about Lord of the Rings and Everquest...
LotR is a totally different system and not d20 at all.
Everquest is a completely compatible d20 game but it uses enough different game mechanics and the races are completely redone to fit that game that they decided to go just OGL with it, which was a great move on their part from a personal opinion.
As for paragraph 15, personally, I have no clue.
LotR is a totally different system and not d20 at all.
Everquest is a completely compatible d20 game but it uses enough different game mechanics and the races are completely redone to fit that game that they decided to go just OGL with it, which was a great move on their part from a personal opinion.
As for paragraph 15, personally, I have no clue.
cthuluftaghn
First Post
Paragraph 15 is simply the Copyright Notice for the Open Game License. It always starts with...
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
... and that is followed by the Copyrighted name, date, and publisher of the work you are publishing. After your own copyright notice, you then must list the copyrights of any other OCG source you used material from.
For example, if you were from a publishing company called "Bob's Books"... and you were publishing a book called "Neat Spells"... and you use open game content from the SRD and a book called "Stupid Spells" published by "Fred's Books"... your paragraph 15 might look something like this:
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Neat Spells Copyright 2002, Bob's Books
System Rules Document Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.
Stupid Spells Copyright 2002, Fred's Books
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
... and that is followed by the Copyrighted name, date, and publisher of the work you are publishing. After your own copyright notice, you then must list the copyrights of any other OCG source you used material from.
For example, if you were from a publishing company called "Bob's Books"... and you were publishing a book called "Neat Spells"... and you use open game content from the SRD and a book called "Stupid Spells" published by "Fred's Books"... your paragraph 15 might look something like this:
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Neat Spells Copyright 2002, Bob's Books
System Rules Document Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.; Authors Jonathan Tweet, Monte Cook, Skip Williams, based on original material by E. Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson.
Stupid Spells Copyright 2002, Fred's Books
