Is Greyhawk Relevant?

[Dragonhelm]

I'm sure that many of us have played at some point or another in the world of Greyhawk. This was Gygax's world, home to some of the greatest classic dungeons in D&D. It is for that nostalgia factor that we hold it in such high regards.

Yet as time has gone on and the hobby has evolved, I have to wonder if it still holds up all these years later.

One of the questions I ask is why WotC would ever want to re-release Greyhawk. They might get some sales based on nostalgia, but what really sets it apart enough to draw in a new crowd? My fear on this is that, as a generic setting, it will be outshone by other generic settings, most notably the Realms. It doesn't offer the wide range of cultures that other settings do. There's nothing geographically or culturally that really sets it apart.

But what of the classic dungeons? My guess is that they'd rather release those in books like Tomb of Horrors. Rather than put out a setting about dungeons, put out books on dungeons.

Does GH need reinvention? I would say yes. It needs to be set apart somehow.

I don't know what Greyhawk needs, or how to make it more relevant to the modern-day gamer. I wish I did. I would hate to just see it fade away, yet that seems to be what's happening. Should it be another continent on the same planet as the Realms? Does it need a makeover?

Thoughts?

 

[DragonLancer]

I think these days Greyhawk is just nostalgia for the "good old days" of early D&D. I myself like generic settings but the current thing seems to be every setting needs a hook of somekind and Greyhawk doesn't have that, and thus I don't think it appeals to the current generation of gamer.

 

[Klaus]

Greyhawk could/should be taken back to its Sword & Sorcery roots. The Free City of Greyhawk itself is heavily inspired by Lankhmar (with established Thieves and Assassins Guilds, etc).

Even the "good kingdoms", like Veluna, Furyondy and the Shield Lands would be safe only within a certain radius of the nobles' castles. The very fact that we have the "Shield" Lands (so-named because it shields the other realms from the evil kingdoms) marks Greyhawk as a gritty setting.

And Gygax added to the Sword & Sorcery flavor a couple of evil kingdoms that rival Mordor itself. We have the Great Kingdom, the Horned Society, and Iuz. Think of it: this is a campaign where an actual demigod rules a kingdom right next to the civilized lands!

 

[Philosopher]

Greyhawk could/should be taken back to its Sword & Sorcery roots. The Free City of Greyhawk itself is heavily inspired by Lankhmar (with established Thieves and Assassins Guilds, etc).

Even the "good kingdoms", like Veluna, Furyondy and the Shield Lands would be safe only within a certain radius of the nobles' castles. The very fact that we have the "Shield" Lands (so-named because it shields the other realms from the evil kingdoms) marks Greyhawk as a gritty setting.

And Gygax added to the Sword & Sorcery flavor a couple of evil kingdoms that rival Mordor itself. We have the Great Kingdom, the Horned Society, and Iuz. Think of it: this is a campaign where an actual demigod rules a kingdom right next to the civilized lands!

Agreed. What Greyhawk needs is someone with an appreciation of class sword & sorcery to bring out these aspects.

Those familiar with Gygax's original presentation of the setting will note that the threat of war was in the air. Perhaps it could be reset to beginning of the Greyhawk Wars, and the setting's schtick could be that war is being waged all around. This would be a change from classic Greyhawk being focused on the awesome dungeon crawls, but I don't think it would be deviating from the feel of Greyhawk too much - it would just be focusing on a specific aspect of it.

 

[billd91]

Greyhawk was certainly relevant throughout the 3e run with the success of the Living Greyhawk organized play campaign. WotC let it lapse with 4e, but I'd be hard pressed to say that the setting is somehow irrelevant. It could probably stand to lay fallow for a bit since 8 or so years of organized play kind of wears things out, but after a few years of laying low, I don't see any reason it couldn't surge back.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Agree with Klaus but also think a lot of gamers do not know Greyhawk of old, they see it as their "dads/moms" campaign setting. It just need to be dusted off, a few things adjusted.

 

[El Mahdi]

I think people choose their own style of play, whether High Fantasy, Sword & Sorcery, Grim & Gritty, etc. I don't think they want a Campaign World to choose that style for them. A Campaign World that has lots of cultures, hooks, regions, etc., that they can then play their type of game in, is going to be chosen more over one that is less flexible.

With that in mind, I don't think Greyhawk could be changed enough to make a difference, and still be Greyhawk. I think it can only successfully exist as a nostalgia thing. It may be possible to re-print the Campaign World, and even update it to 4E mechanics, but I don't think major changes could work. I think Forgotten Realms is spared this a little more due to it's plethora of cultures and geographic areas, and it's history of already having world changing events. Greyhawk just wouldn't be Greyhawk anymore if the same thing was done to it.

So in my opinion, Greyhawk is only relevant as a Nostalgia product, not as a currently published major campaign world.

 

[Dragonhelm]

Greyhawk was certainly relevant throughout the 3e run with the success of the Living Greyhawk organized play campaign. WotC let it lapse with 4e, but I'd be hard pressed to say that the setting is somehow irrelevant. It could probably stand to lay fallow for a bit since 8 or so years of organized play kind of wears things out, but after a few years of laying low, I don't see any reason it couldn't surge back.

If you did the organized play, then it might seem worn out. Not all of us did. From my perspective, there hasn't been any GH setting products since the early 3e days. I remember it more as an AD&D setting.

As far as the idea of GH being a setting about war, I would have to wonder how it would then stand out compared to Dragonlance, whose history is defined largely by war.

 

[Dykstrav]

Sadly, I'd have to say that Greyhawk is largely irrelevant to many gamers these days. I personally love the setting, but it's mostly a "legacy setting" to today's gamers.

I'm actually running a Greyhawk game right now under Pathfinder rules for my players that don't really know much about it. I specifically went with Greyhawk because most of my players don't know it very well--unlike the Realms, not every corner has been highly detailed and the overall feel of the setting is wilder and grittier. The players have immensely enjoyed getting to explore it.

I'm using a combination of the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer and previous edition supplements and this suits me just fine. In fact, I'd rather not have any official support for the setting at this time. If they change things around as much as they did for the newest version of the Forgotten Realms or to try to make classic Greyhawk appeal to newer gamers, I'd prefer for it to lay fallow.

 

[Klaus]

Agreed. What Greyhawk needs is someone with an appreciation of class sword & sorcery to bring out these aspects.

Those familiar with Gygax's original presentation of the setting will note that the threat of war was in the air. Perhaps it could be reset to beginning of the Greyhawk Wars, and the setting's schtick could be that war is being waged all around. This would be a change from classic Greyhawk being focused on the awesome dungeon crawls, but I don't think it would be deviating from the feel of Greyhawk too much - it would just be focusing on a specific aspect of it.

I don't think all-out war is needed, or even wanted, but constant skirmishes are a must. The "Lawful Good" realms are right next door to "Chaotic Evil" and "Neutral Evil" kingdoms. A "world war" is too much of a modern concept, but centuries of border skirmishes, minor sieges and espionage can be as taxing as any single war.

Add to that the fact that most realms are Neutral, including the Free City. Greyhawk is not really about Good vs. Evil (like Dragonlance), but Neutral vs. Everything Else.