Is Improved Natural Attack a 'no brainer' for Monks?

[Legildur]

The longest thread in the Rules Forum history Monks and INA feat? discusses whether Monks are allowed to take Improved Natural Attack. I do not want to rehash the arguments here.

What I would like to know is, if we suspend all debate for this poll and accept that monks are allowed to take INA, and if you were creating a monk character (standard PHB races and core books) of about 10th level, would the Improved Natural Attack feat be a 'no brainer' selection?

 

[shilsen]

For a monk focused on causing hit point damage, yes. For a lot of other monk concepts, no.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The longest thread in the Rules Forum history Monks and INA feat? discusses whether Monks are allowed to take Improved Natural Attack. I do not want to rehash the arguments here.

What I would like to know is, if we suspend all debate for this poll and accept that monks are allowed to take INA, and if you were creating a monk character (standard PHB races and core books) of about 10th level, would the Improved Natural Attack feat be a 'no brainer' selection?

I'd rather take Weapon Focus. Seriously, what is the point of boosting your uber-damage anyway if you can't hit anything?

 

[Blue]

It's not a no brainer. Yes, monks do get some extra feats, but from a small list, so feats are precious. This helps them do a bit more damage, though at the low-mid level at least (when it's a single die), boosting a die type gives you an average increase of one point - half that of weapon specialization.

It's nice, but far from a no brainer - it works for some concepts, and not for others, just like feats are supposed to.

Cheers,
Blue

 

[diaglo]

For a monk focused on causing hit point damage, yes. For a lot of other monk concepts, no.

ditto

 

[Rashak Mani]

Monks are a rare class in that they benefit from having good stats in many different stats. Especially since they are a "combat" class and do need to dish out some damage... but if you invest in Strength you inevitably end up losing much more in other stats which would be more useful. Especially Wisdom. The feat Impr.Natural Attack gives you that small damage increase... that grows with time without having to sacrifice Stat Points. Some spells make it better too... Enlarge Person for example.

So I don't think its a no-brainer because feats are expensive... but its certainly interesting. Stun specialist monks aren't much good against creatures that are immune to criticials... and tripping won't work with bigger foes. Damage Reduction even only DR5 can reduce the monk's effectiveness. So the extra damage is always welcome.

 

[pbd]

I agree that it can be helpful, but not a no-brainer. I did choose yes on the poll, bu tonly because there was no "sometimes" option.

Monks can't take the feat until 6th level, and feast are definately precious. The monk I am currently playing, who is a tripper/stunner (its fun to trip someone then stun them when they are on the ground...) may take it at 9th if he needs the damage boost.

The campaign we are playing (currently 7th level) in is fairly non-standard and the monk is one of our front line guys. The campaign world is very low magic, in fact all resources are rare including steel, and the monk seems to do OK in this situation as one of the fighters.

 

[glass]

It's nice, but far from a no brainer - it works for some concepts, and not for others, just like feats are supposed to.

This is spot on AFAIAC.

I voted no, because I wouldn't give it to every monk, and there wasn't a maybe option.


glass.

 

[Infiniti2000]

It's absolutely a no-brainer. Anything that gives you better damage than weapon specialization is a no-brainer. Let's look at the average numbers, starting from the minimum value at 6th level, and considering only medium-sized monks.

1d8 (4.5) --> 2d6 (7) = gains 2.5 damage, already better than WS
1d10 (5.5) --> 2d8 (9) = gains 3.5, significantly better than WS
2d6 (7) --> 3d6 (10.5) = gains 3.5, same gain as previous increase
2d8 (9) --> 4d6 (14) = gains 5, holy smokes this is huge for a feat
or 2d8 (9) --> 3d8 (13.5) = gains 4.5, holy smokes this is huge for a feat
2d10 (11) --> 4d8 (18) = gains 7, that's huge

It's clearly a no-brainer. Gaining +7 damage by the end of the chain? At no point is it worse or even equal to weapon specialization -- it's ALWAYS better. More importantly, the feat gets better as you level up. Anyone not thinking this is a no-brainer is clearly not looking at the numbers, or not at the same ones.

 

[Artoomis]

It's absolutely a no-brainer. Anything that gives you better damage than weapon specialization is a no-brainer. Let's look at the average numbers, starting from the minimum value at 6th level, and considering only medium-sized monks.

1d8 (4.5) --> 2d6 (7) = gains 2.5 damage, already better than WS
1d10 (5.5) --> 2d8 (9) = gains 3.5, significantly better than WS
2d6 (7) --> 3d6 (10.5) = gains 3.5, same gain as previous increase
2d8 (9) --> 4d6 (14) = gains 5, holy smokes this is huge for a feat
2d10 (11) --> 4d8 (18) = gains 7, that's huge

It's clearly a no-brainer. Gaining +7 damage by the end of the chain? At no point is it worse or even equal to weapon specialization -- it's ALWAYS better. More importantly, the feat gets better as you level up. Anyone not thinking this is a no-brainer is clearly not looking at the numbers, or not at the same ones.

Correction: Per the monk size damage table, 2d8 (9) --> 3d8 (13.5) gains 4.5