Is Improved Natural Attack a 'no brainer' for Monks?

[Crothian]

Isn't that the assumption from the question though? If there question posed by this poll were merely about RP, what possible value would it be? I can't imagine this being a worthwhile poll if it weren't about the numbers. This feat is hands-down the most powerful feat for a monk. I mean, if you'd rather take skill focus (basketweaving) because it fits your character's background better, that's fine, but it's completely irrelevant from the intent of the poll. Am I right, Legildur?

Wow, You read a lot of words in the question that I obviously missed. It asked if the feat was a no brainer for a monk to take. I'm not sure it is the most powerful feat for a monk. It increases damage, that's not all that impressive. Spring Attack I'd call more powerful since it allows you to attack the opponet and not be attacked back as one can move to a place they can't be attacked. Nice try throwing in the skill focus bit, as if that is the only other feat someone might take. :\

Sure, if you try to limit the question like you are it it does become a no brainer, but it also becomes a useless poll since it is so limited. It is only a useful question if it asks is it a no brainer in a normal campaign.

 

[pbd]

The higher the campaign is... the more useful the feat...

Higher levels have more DR, your stats are more important than feats, damage levels up.

Personally, I think that has to do more with DR being, nearly broken (very strange and hard to conceptualize at the least).

The whole concenpt is counter intuitive and it throws the balance of the game off by making the big, single attack damage dealers more favorable than those that have many attacks for less damage (monks, TWFers, druid in wildshape [sometimes], archers, etc.).

I don't like it as a mechanic or from a conceptual stand; but that is just me (sorry for the mini-rant)

 

[Sejs]

Voted yes, it's a no-brainer.

It's a single feat that boosts a monk's primary means of damage dealing and continues to scale up with the character through out their progression rather than granting a flat bonus.

It would be like if Weapon Focus gave you +1 to hit per 4 levels, rather than just a flat +1, or if Dodge continued to accrue Ac bonus as you gained in level.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Sure, if you try to limit the question like you are it it does become a no brainer, but it also becomes a useless poll since it is so limited. It is only a useful question if it asks is it a no brainer in a normal campaign.

So, why ask about INA? Why not any other feat out there? Is the poll purely about flavor for INA, as you suspect? And, if it's about flavor only, then how does the term 'no brainer' even apply? I'm not reading more into the question, I merely reading the question.

 

[Crothian]

So, why ask about INA? Why not any other feat out there? Is the poll purely about flavor for INA, as you suspect? And, if it's about flavor only, then how does the term 'no brainer' even apply? I'm not reading more into the question, I merely reading the question.

I didn't ask the question, but I imagine the reason it was asked is because there is a lot of discussion on the feat. In the 5 years of third edition there has been many threads on many feats.

I'm not saying it is only about the flavor, I'm saying it is not only about the numbers. Again the qwuestion asks if it is a no brainer, and the game is a mixture of the flavor and the numbers so any answer needs to be based on both.

 

[Dimwhit]

I'll echo others. For a combat-oriented monk, it's pretty much a no-brainer. For other builds, not so much.

 

[Infiniti2000]

I'm not saying it is only about the flavor, I'm saying it is not only about the numbers. Again the qwuestion asks if it is a no brainer, and the game is a mixture of the flavor and the numbers so any answer needs to be based on both.

Okay, fair enough. And, in that context, I'd still argue it's a no brainer. The incredibly benefit gained by this feat vastly overpowers the need for any other feat, flavor-based character or not. The only time that this feat wouldn't get picked is if the monk never plans to enter combat. Unless the monk never takes a combat-related feat, then he should select this one as a no-brainer.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

As a very related question, offer up a similar feat, call it Improved Manufactured Weapon, and see if it's a no brainer for a fighter, barbarian, rogue, etc.

 

[Crothian]

Unless the monk never takes a combat-related feat, then he should select this one as a no-brainer.

It depends for me what other feats are allowed in the campaign. There are some great feats from Quint Monk and Blood and Fist that I would perfer over this feat. Limiting the selection of feats to just the PHB, MM, DMG makes this feat much more pretty

As a very related question, offer up a similar feat, call it Improved Manufactured Weapon, and see if it's a no brainer for a fighter, barbarian, rogue, etc.

Well, fighters and Barbarians actualkly are more combat focused then the monk and rogue; so it makes sens they would take it. But if it only applied to a single weapon type like weapon focus I think it would not be a no brainer.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well, fighters and Barbarians actualkly are more combat focused then the monk and rogue; so it makes sens they would take it. But if it only applied to a single weapon type like weapon focus I think it would not be a no brainer.

Well, weapon specialization is a single weapon and I would not imagine not taking it as a fighter. Whether that's a problem with weapon specialization is another story (I know some people take issue with a fighter's necessitated focus on a single weapon). INA is far better than weapon specialization in every single way possible.

As for being combat focused, I respectfully disagree. Every single bonus feat and special ability that a monk gains is combat-focused. Since they all have numerous combat abilities, I don't think a monk can be considered non-combat-focused. I guess some of the immunities might not be about the numbers, but mostly everything else is. This doesn't mean that a monk has to enter combat, of course, but if he doesn't then the vast majority of his abilities become meaningless (not necessarily in a bad way depending on the game).

 

[Crothian]

As for being combat focused, I respectfully disagree. Every single bonus feat and special ability that a monk gains is combat-focused.

Timeless Body and Tongue of the Sun and Moon

Those are not combat focused. But again you are mising what is being said. I never said monks were not combat focused, I said the other two classes are more combat focused.