D&D 4E Is Intelligence 4e's dump stat?

[hong]

Considering that virtually all successful fantasy lit. thieves or roguish types are intelligent (as well as action movie thieves etc.), are extremely intelligent, from The Grey Mouser to Locke Lamora, I think it would be an absolute travesty if Int was the "dump stat" for Rogues. It was perilously close to being so even in 3E, frankly, and the idea that being smart is no use to a Rogue, it's just mindblowing. How are you going to scheme if you're as thick as two short planks? How are you going to plan elaborate robberies or defeat incredibly complex traps if you've got an int of 6? Yuck.

Wisdom is a much better dump stat for Rogues, but D&D insists, in the 3E and 4E, on illogically linking it with sensory stuff (which, irl, is closely linked to intelligence, but w/e), making it mandatory that all Rogues are sensible and/or wise. Which is perverse in the extreme.

Ninjae are not intelligent. Ninjae are wise.

 

[CleverNickName]

Ninjae are not intelligent. Ninjae are wise.

+1 for using the plural.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Intelligence = Clever?

I've never thought so. There are plenty of geniuses that aren't clever in the slightest.

Ability to reason... ability to retain knowledge... but ability to think on your feet? Nah.

That's Wisdom (perception, worldliness, intuition, common sense).

No, you'r talking about SMARTS, which is a combination of both Int and Wis, and D&D doesn't cater for it

Me and another fella were top two students in high school, other fella was on top cause he was a whiz with maths and didn't have bum legs, but unlike myself, he couldn't do practical things, nor problem solve. He was a "classic nerd" I was a "big hairy nerdoid"

But, after a point I found algebra becoming impossible even though I understood and liked it, because ability is not always simple (to me after a point algebra literally becomes unglued, frustrating as hell).

My cousin's the other way around: brilliant at algebra and music, he preffers music by miles though.

Smarts is having the drive to use your intelligence, the insight for "connecting the dots" etc, but it's still along certain paths..all of us have our strengths and weaknesses.

One person can think his way thorugh survivng a fire fight, but get messed up with organizing...another can deal wonderfully with life except, their love life...and so on.

be nice if the 4th ed PHB could have a list of Quirks and Weaknesses to roll on for your chaarcater, hm?

 

[Valdrax]

+1 for using the plural.

-1 for making it up. Japanese doesn't have a plural conjugation, so it's either ninja (Japanese style) or ninjas (English style). Ninjae is pretentious and goofy sounding.

 

[ruleslawyer]

More a hong trademark, actually.

 

[Ahglock]

No, you'r talking about SMARTS, which is a combination of both Int and Wis, and D&D doesn't cater for it

Me and another fella were top two students in high school, other fella was on top cause he was a whiz with maths and didn't have bum legs, but unlike myself, he couldn't do practical things, nor problem solve. He was a "classic nerd" I was a "big hairy nerdoid"

But, after a point I found algebra becoming impossible even though I understood and liked it, because ability is not always simple (to me after a point algebra literally becomes unglued, frustrating as hell).

My cousin's the other way around: brilliant at algebra and music, he preffers music by miles though.

Smarts is having the drive to use your intelligence, the insight for "connecting the dots" etc, but it's still along certain paths..all of us have our strengths and weaknesses.

One person can think his way thorugh survivng a fire fight, but get messed up with organizing...another can deal wonderfully with life except, their love life...and so on.

be nice if the 4th ed PHB could have a list of Quirks and Weaknesses to roll on for your chaarcater, hm?

No, you got it all wrong.

Intelligence is defined by whatever makes me seem smarter. So anything not involving memory, grammar, or spelling. Logical analysis, reasoning now that is intelligence.

 

[Ahglock]

I never udnerstood how Wisdom could be a dump stat for a thief. Hell, scratch that, I can't see how Wisdom could be a dump stat for ANY class. With a below average score, a character won't live long enough to get to mid levels.

Sure, the thief might be able to come up with the elegant robbery planes but its wisdom that tells him robbing from "Da Capo" is not a wise move.

I've liked it for the reckless rogue concepts. Also when it is tied to perception I kind of like a low wisdom because I am perhaps the most oblivious person on the planet. Common sense I may have by the truck load, but perception I wouldn't know it if I was looking right at it.

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

I said it in the other thread and I'll say it again here:

Observing a dump stat for ONE class does not mean it's a dump stat for ALL classes.

Arcane seems like it would really be focused on INT, logically. Because the rogue relies on STR and DEX, is it really logical to assume that the mage/wizard types will rely on strength to power their spells? That's like seeing that INT was important to arcane casters, and concluding that strength must be a dump stat for warriors, because it is for arcane casters, so it must be the same everywhere, right?

In short, the assumption just doesn't seem to compute. IMO, anyway.

We haven't really seen the magic system, unless I missed it, or social combat, or anything. Just a couple of combat feats and a tiny list of suggested skills. Let's wait and see, folks.

 

[Campbell]

-1 for making it up. Japanese doesn't have a plural conjugation, so it's either ninja (Japanese style) or ninjas (English style). Ninjae is pretentious and goofy sounding.

Intelligence is hong's dump stat.

 

[Ahglock]

Intelligence is hong's dump stat.

But he is wise like ninja, so look out. Hong may ninja you.