Is Iron Will an Untyped Bonus?

[EyeontheMountain]

Yes, it would be broken--in general, it would always be broken to create something unlimited that adds to a roll because of the extreme case of someone who only takes that over and over.

Examples:

UNLIMITED-POWER-Weapon-Focus--As Weapon Focus, but you can apply it to the same weapon infinitely. Suddenly, a Fighter who does that always hits unless you pick an enemy that everyone else always misses.

UNLIMITED-POWER-Spell-Focus--As Spell Focus, but you can apply it to the same school an infinite number of times. Suddenly, nobody can beat the Wizard's save DCs for X school--in fact, the DC disparity could be up to +8. That means that for people who saved except on a 1 without this crazy Spell Focus, they now need a 10 to save, and for anything more reasonable (say they had a 50/50 shot before), they can barely save with the highest rolls.

Wow, what a sub-optimal build that would be, taking Improved Spell Focus/Weapon focus for every single feat you get in the whole game! BTW, how do you get infinite feats, except for playing Pun-pun?

A bit of a ridiculous example. I can actually think of few feats that woud be broken even if takes time and time again. And most of those would be 'apply your XX ability score modifier to YY' Like charisma to will saves or some such. Taking those multiple times would indeed be broken. But in most cases, why not. Feats don't grow on trees.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Wow, what a sub-optimal build that would be, taking Improved Spell Focus/Weapon focus for every single feat you get in the whole game! BTW, how do you get infinite feats, except for playing Pun-pun?

A bit of a ridiculous example. I can actually think of few feats that woud be broken even if takes time and time again. And most of those would be 'apply your XX ability score modifier to YY' Like charisma to will saves or some such. Taking those multiple times would indeed be broken. But in most cases, why not. Feats don't grow on trees.

Sub-optimal? I don't think so. Perhaps suboptimal compared to incredible rules abuses like Pun-Pun, but that character can still DESTROY a standard build. Also, one obviously need not spend every feat on the stacking feat--Build a level-20 Fighter-type (Barbarian, Paladin, etc is fine too) using core rules (or why not throw in Complete Warrior to give you more options--No other books though) standard wealth, and 25 PB (and no stacking Weapons Focus, obviously, since it is core rules) and I will build a Fighter with stacking Weapon Focus that will render the character you build irrelevant and automatically beat it in a fight.

EDIT: As an aside, the Cha to Will saves and other such feats would do absolutely nothing if you took them multiple times, so they actually aren't broken ad infinitum.

 

[Arkhandus]

Ain't nothin' ridiculous about being able to cast death spells that almost no one can save against. Or domination / hold spells that almost no one can save against. Say hello to Bob the sorcerer, and his well-nigh-unbeatable combination, of irresistable Hold Monsters followed by a Summon Monster coup de grace.....

Or about a Fighter who hits absolutely anything with every single attack, even his last iterative attack, while power attacking all the time.....

But anyway..... Barbarians and fighters would love to make their saves virtually insta-success, especially Will saves.

A frenzied berserker would be all over a stackable pile of Iron Will feats. Woo! Invincibility! .......Followed by the cleric's Resurrection, or series of Heals, after the FB single-handedly whoops a dozen balors' arses simultaneously without going down until he's quite finished with them.

An Improved Iron Will of some sort would be fine most likely, but more than two copies of a save-boosting feat? Probably an aweful idea.

 

[hong]

While stacking Wpn Focus is dubious, I see nothing wrong with taking Iron Will multiple times for +2 each time. The rock-paper-scissors method of balancing that D&D uses, where everyone has a weak spot, is lame. Iron Heroes just gives everyone a simple +1/level save bonus for everything, and it works great. And defense is a contingent thing anyway: if noone casts charm or dominate on you, that incredible Will save won't do anything.