Is it cheating to start a PC above 1st level?

[JDJarvis]

And this is where my problem with this comes in as a DM you have to pull your punches if you want the lower level PCs to have any chance of living. Do you have your mages not throw an area effect spell if the lower level pc is in range? Do you have the higher level fighter ignore the lower level pc if they are closet to them in say an ambush? Or do you let the chips fall where they may?

I am just wondering how you handle these issues in your game?

I don't pull punches. Every NPC fights like they want to win or survive.

 

[JDJarvis]

And on the other side of this I say: SO a group of experience people are supposed to accept a bubmling neophyte into their group for no reason? Making people replace high level characters with much lower level characters very much stretches credibility in the game when they are allowed into the party for no reason other than "they are Bobs new character"

They aren't bumbling neophytes they are just as heroically capable as the more experienced characters. New characters have been former hirelings, ambitious followers, apprentices, folks seeking to prove themselves, relatives of known NPCs, buisness and social arangements.
Currently in my campaign if someone was down to no characters I'd let them start with a character at 5th level. Folks can get a second character at 1st level if they wish. The third level character is one of the most recent 1st level seconds and there are two characters of 5th and 6th level that did start out at 1st level when there were other characters of much higher level in the party. Of the 7 current active PCs in the game only 2 of them have not entered play at 1st level.

 

[rogueattorney]

And on the other side of this I say: SO a group of experience people are supposed to accept a bubmling neophyte into their group for no reason? Making people replace high level characters with much lower level characters very much stretches credibility in the game when they are allowed into the party for no reason other than "they are Bobs new character"

Ben brought Luke along to save the Princess.
Gandalf convinced Thorin and company to bring Bilbo along.
Merry and Pippin were numbers 8 and 9 of the Fellowship.
Gwydion took Taran with him while looking for Hen-wen.
How many war movies feature raw recruits joining the veterans in the trenches?

Need I go on? There are all sorts of reasons for a low level character to accompany high level characters during their adventures. In my 2e days, a 1st level bard joined the rest of the party (who was about 8th level) to write a saga of their increasingly bizzare adventures.

To sum up - I agree with JDJarvis.

R.A.

 

[Scion]

I think you need go on yes, as none of those examples prove anything useful for the d&d system.

It may very well be that bilbo is actually a 4th level expert already, and that the other people were actually 2nd level experts/2nd level fighters, or 3/1, or maybe they were also 4th level experts.

Gandolf might simply be a 5th level mage, or maybe he is a 3rd level mage with some sort of racial LA.

Really, all of those can be explained away in such a way as to make it that the new comers are actually very close in level to the party level.

Personally, I can start play at any level, make a good background story, and run with it.

I greatly prefer starting at 3 or 5, that way i have enough levels to play with to make a good background story. If you are a level one character your background is mostly going to be about people other than yourself in all likelyhood.. because you simply have no experience.

There can be exceptions of course, but they are very few and far between (such as a character who has been level drained back to level 1).

The only difference between starting level 1 and level X is that you have more options of what to put into your backstory for level X, that is all. More options = good.

 

[Mort]

Ben brought Luke along to save the Princess.
Gandalf convinced Thorin and company to bring Bilbo along.
Merry and Pippin were numbers 8 and 9 of the Fellowship.
Gwydion took Taran with him while looking for Hen-wen.
How many war movies feature raw recruits joining the veterans in the trenches?

Need I go on? There are all sorts of reasons for a low level character to accompany high level characters during their adventures. In my 2e days, a 1st level bard joined the rest of the party (who was about 8th level) to write a saga of their increasingly bizzare adventures.

To sum up - I agree with JDJarvis.

R.A.

Finding examples from books and movies doesn't really prove anything.
The characters in the movies and novels have this little thing called plot immunity - they survive because the author wants them to. It doesn't work so well in a game.

The level based mechanic of D20 just doesn't work well with a high level differential because players increase exponentially in power.

 

[Piratecat]

The real problem I've seen is that no matter how good a reason you may have for bringing a 1st lvl PC on a higher lvl adventure, it's usually just not fun for the player. Not many people get a big kick out of being overshadowed by every single other PC. I allow a 1st lvl PC when a player really wants to, but otherwise avoid it... it's a case of being willing to sacrifice my principles in the interest of player enjoyment.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

It is not only cheating to start above 1st level, it is illegal. Your friend is not only right, but he should turn you into the cops. You're looking at 6 months to two years, buddy!


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Seriously, whatever the group agrees on is cool.

 

[Elf Witch]

I don't pull punches. Every NPC fights like they want to win or survive.

Okay then can you please tell me the average of PCs death you have? The reason I am asking this is I am having a hard time visualizing combat with the varied levels all able to contribute without ending up dead.

In the games I play in even when we play smart it would be tough for a lower level PC to live much less contribute anything to the fight. We have area effect spells going off from both friendly and unfriendly mages, high level fighters who do massive amounts of damage.

The only way I can see this working is to be fighting in areas that give you a lot of room for maneuverability and they must work really well as a team each knowing where to go and what to do and who to engage. It would seem a mistake could be deadly for the lower level PCs.

 

[SweeneyTodd]

I'm absolutely fascinated by this thread, not because of the subject matter per se, but because so many people hold such strong feelings on how they play, and why it's right.

I mean, I'd have never thought of starting at 1st level, and never have in a single game I've played or GMed. But that's just my personal preference.

Now I'm starting to wonder what other questions I take for granted would get such a wide range of answers. It's really interesting to see how different our various games are.

 

[Epametheus]

I don't like playing 1st level characters, and I regard 1st level as something that should be over with as quickly as possible when we do start at that level in a campaign.

Merry and Pippin may have been members 8 & 9 of the Fellowship, but they were also complete liabilities until they managed to talk the Ents into marching. And as mentioned, characters in stories have the distinct advantage of only dying when the author wants them to.

In my experience, 1st level characters only survive though extensive fudging on the part of the DM, since it only takes a single good roll to kill one.