Is it OK to distribute others' OGC for free?

[Cergorach]

So you don't think that WotC and D&D has significantly benefited from the OGL? Or, for that matter, that the gaming community hasn't benefited? Heck, you point out that D&D has been effectively protected from the threat of Hasbro killing the brand. That doesn't sound like an act of flim-flammery to me.
:\

Using your 10 million, i'll make your another million (what i don't tell you is that i also make 100,000 using your money). It's not that WotC didin't benefit, i just think that other parties benefited more.

 

[WizarDru]

I'm still not following you. You think that Monte Cook or SKR is deriving more benefit from the OGL than WotC is? I might agree that a handful of former WotC employees (Dancey not among them) have benefited better than some existing WotC employees, perhaps (folks like Monte, Chris Pramas and a couple of others)...but I sincerely doubt that WotC, on the whole, hasn't benefited more than they have.

I don't understand exactly what you're trying to say. What do you mean by "...what I don't tell you is that i also make 100,000 using your money"? What swindle are you describing?

 

[Cergorach]

Compare increased sales of WotC to an ex employee that produces their own D&D books.
I wasn't describing a swindle, i was describing that using the resources of company A to increase it's sales could benefit company B and C more then it would company A. The increase in sales for A is in the millions, an x% increase in profit, but the far smaller amount that company B and C generate as a profit would not exist if A didn't try to increase it sales. Thus the increase in profit for company B and C is infinately higher, percentage wise, then it is for company A.

It's not important, but just an observation.

 

[WizarDru]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but that sounds like you're implying that folks like Cook, Pramas, SKR and Dancey pushed the OGL so they could anticipate being laid off and making money by starting up their own companies. Which seems counter to what I understand of the situation.

 

[Cergorach]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but that sounds like you're implying that folks like Cook, Pramas, SKR and Dancey pushed the OGL so they could anticipate being laid off and making money by starting up their own companies. Which seems counter to what I understand of the situation.

All i say is that it might have played a part in the creation of the OGL...

 

[WizarDru]

Frankly, I hard it more than a little difficult to conceive that Monte Cook pushed for the OGL in 1999, with a preconcieved notion that he would be let go in 2002, so that he could return to freelancing. Most of the writers at WotC who have gone on to some success aren't making it rich, they're just barely making it. The loss of things like health-insurance and 401K plans are things you don't value until you no longer have them. If it were me, personally, I would be a little offended by the insinuation...especially given how many of the writers have 'day jobs' now that they've left WotC. SKR, for example, left WotC to work full time for Interplay, until they went belly-up, and then he had to find work again. Monte's success has allowed him, I think, to consider pursuing a full-time job as a writer...but I hardly think that qualifies as manipulating the system to make a profit, unless they're very, very bad at it. If there's one thing I've heard different creators agree upon, it's that one doesn't become a game designer/writer to make lots of money.

 

[Cergorach]

Just see it as the preamble for D20 Conspiracy ;-)

 

[Zappo]

Compare increased sales of WotC to an ex employee that produces their own D&D books.
I wasn't describing a swindle, i was describing that using the resources of company A to increase it's sales could benefit company B and C more then it would company A. The increase in sales for A is in the millions, an x% increase in profit, but the far smaller amount that company B and C generate as a profit would not exist if A didn't try to increase it sales. Thus the increase in profit for company B and C is infinately higher, percentage wise, then it is for company A.

Well, yes. I mean, it's a win-win situation, which is exactly how Dancey presented the OGL. Everyone profits; who profits more is just a matter of how you view the situation. After all, the OGL would have failed without third party companies, D&D would have sold less, and WotC would have profited less. So, you could equally validly argue that it is actually WotC profiting from third parties.

 

[PJ-Mason]

I that its the D20 License that Wotc benefits so much from, as opposed to the OGL. Anytime someone makes a D20 game book, the customers also need the Core Books = benefit for WOTC. You still have to go to the well for the water!

The OGL is a lot different. Most OGL either rely very little on the core books, or skip them entirely = reduced or nil benefit for WOTC. The fact that it is difficult or illegal to refer to D&D, WOTC, or specific D&D books in OGL products tips the balance even farther away from WOTC benefiting from the OGL. OGL products just don't lead back to WOTC anywhere near the level that the D20 license does.

So does Monte (Arcana Unearthed line) or Green Ronin (mutants & masterminds, Blue Rose, etc) benefit from the OGL more than WOTC does? I think so.

I still say that the D20 license was a stroke of genius and that the OGL may yet give WOTC a stroke one of these days.

 

[WizarDru]

So does Monte (Arcana Unearthed line) or Green Ronin (mutants & masterminds, Blue Rose, etc) benefit from the OGL more than WOTC does? I think so.

I still say that the D20 license was a stroke of genius and that the OGL may yet give WOTC a stroke one of these days.

I'm not so sure. System familiarity keeps gamers near and dear to d20, which leads them back to WotC, sooner or later. Case in point: I have almost every Mutants and Masterminds book available. I've played superhero games before (I had one GURPS Supers game run 8 years), but it was M&M's use of the OGL that brought me to it (and its near universally good reviews).

But part of the issue has to be: when we say Malhavoc or Green Ronin benefits more, what do we mean? I think you're speaking to an intellectual/property right issue, whereas I'm discussing a fiscal approach.

Also, let's not forget that the d20 license, the OGL and the D&D logo are three separate entities that have different rules, and their interaction can be convoluted. Mutants and Masterminds and Blue Rose use variants of the d20 system through the OGL. They are not licensed for d20, and can't present the logo, but they can and do identify their core ruleset as being created from the d20 system, as per the OGL. M&M is partly OGC, as we can see with their damage system appearing in UA. Freeport is d20, and claims so on it's covers. Kenzer, meanwhile, has the right to claim that Kalamar IS D&D, because they paid for the right to do so. The more ways that d20 and D&D are tied together, the less likely someone is going to leave D&D for another system...hence WotC benefits in the short AND long runs.