D&D (2024) Is it possible to balance the six abilities?

[Zardnaar]

Theoretically yes in 5E no.

 

[CreamCloud0]

to start with i'd probably try to even out the number of skills per stat, i'd move intimidation to STR, and split athletics into might and stamina (and emphasize some of the things that acrobatics can't actually do), then i'd add three skills to CON: vitality(required to gain +con HP on level up), endurance(half proficiency to saving throws) and concentration(required to get +con on concentration saving throws), and the ever classic, INT gives an equal bonus of extra skills/proficiencies.

 

[Deset Gled]

In the eight ability system:

Dexterity = manual dexterity, cautious precision.
Athletics = body agility, balance, mobility.

There is no overlap. Athletics gains the "dodge" bonus to AC.

A round stone is mounted on a pole, and the pole is inserted into a rock. The rock is labeled with many runes. Your character is tasked to rotate the stone, in a single round, until a mark on its outer edge points at a specific rune.

If the stone is 1cm diameter and needs to be pointed with precision of 0.1 degrees (like a fine electronic dial), this is clearly a Dex check. If the stone is 2m across, 300kg, and the precision is 1/6th of a turn (60 degrees), this is clearly a Str check. At some combination of size, weight, and precision, this is a task of body agility, balance, and mobility, and becomes an Athletics check. Can you determine exactly where the crossover points are?

There is always overlap. And, in fact, there is less ambiguity in a 6 ability system, because you only have to decide between Dex and Str. Introducing more abilities, like Ath, inherently increases the number of overlaps to consider, and increases ambiguity.

The eight abilities are not abstract. They emerge from the bottom up, from each of the eight containing important combat mechanics, that tend to happen during most combat encounters.

IMNSHO, not only are the abilities abstract, but the "bottom" from which you refer up from, the combat, the mechanics, and the encounter are, too. The entire game is an abstraction. How can it not be? Is it real? Physical? Empirical?

 

[el-remmen]

The closest I have come was homebrew D&D setting where all classes were clerics who used one of the different six stat as their spellcasting ability depending on their choice of god 18 gods.

 

[soviet]

to start with i'd probably try to even out the number of skills per stat, i'd move intimidation to STR, and split athletics into might and stamina (and emphasize some of the things that acrobatics can't actually do), then i'd add three skills to CON: vitality(required to gain +con HP on level up), endurance(half proficiency to saving throws) and concentration(required to get +con on concentration saving throws), and the ever classic, INT gives an equal bonus of extra skills/proficiencies.

Isn't this quite punitive on fighters and barbarians?

They gain from the Intimidation thing but they have to spend two extra skill slots to stay where they are, and other characters can buy a skill that gives them half proficiency in one of their main saves.

This would need to be paired with at least a couple more skills for these classes I think.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Isn't this quite punitive on fighters and barbarians?

They gain from the Intimidation thing but they have to spend two extra skill slots to stay where they are, and other characters can buy a skill that gives them half proficiency in one of their main saves.

This would need to be paired with at least a couple more skills for these classes I think.

true perhaps, but i think martials should be getting more skills than they currently do anyway and if four extra skills got added the amount of skills everyone gets would probably need to be adjusted so i'd compensate them for that in those changes.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Balance all six abilities? Yes. You just need to:

• Have an equal number of skills under each ability
• Have an equal number of attacks that challenge the saving throw of each of the six abilities
• Have an equal number of classes that each use one of the six abilities for their attack rolls
• Have one or two "special" things (besides the above) for each of the six abilities, all of which are used fairly equally during the adventuring day

Of course this would involve making many changes including even possibly changing what the six abilities are (since we all know CON does not have any skills underneath it and there are few if any skill that could be made for the game that would use CON at an equal rate as the skills that use DEX, INT, and WIS.)

In my opinion though... none of it needs to happen because the six abilities are narrative decisions and not board game rules. So if the story of what Constitution is does not have any skill attributed to it... that's completely fine. It doesn't need them. If that means it is an ability that is "used less" in the board game than something like Wisdom is... so be it. A character's health has an important place in the character's narrative life, so it's perfectly acceptable in its use as it is (in my opinion).

 

[payn]

Im not sure why 4 or 8 works better than 6?

 

[Yaarel]

This is just a first pass, to start getting a sense of what important combat mechanics might go where if using six abilities:

DEXTERITY Reflex Save AC Dodge Bonus Athletics (Climb-Balance, Jump-Fall, Speed, Maneuver) Unarmed Combat Stealth Checks Missile Attack Missile Damage Finesse Attack Finesse Damage	STRENGTH Melee Attack Melee Damage Heavy Armor Strength Check (Break/Block Doors) (No Saves)	CONSTITUTION Hit Points Fortitude Save (No Actions)
INTELLIGENCE Perception Save (Hidden, Illusion, Fake) Find = Intelligence (Stealth) Initiative All Knowledge Checks Medicine (Healing, Poisoning) Deception Skill	CHARISMA Persuasion (prevent combat) Intimidation (end combat) (inflict dis?) Insight (morale?) (No Saves)	WISDOM Concentration, Focus Sanity Save (Charm, Fear, Domination) (No Actions)

 

[Laurefindel]

The abilities themselves aren’t very far from being balanced, but you’re right, the game favours some more than others.

Dexterity is not overpowered because it allows everything; it’s overpowered because the game is overly generous with ranged combat and underplays encumbrance.

Intelligence mostly lacks more classes depending on it (i wish warlock had been an Intelligence class for more symmetry), and number of skills known are no longer dependent on it. As for investigation, it is cheapened by the fact that Perception is often used for situations that should require investigation instead (« finding things » should be investigation, « spotting ambushes » should be what perception is for). Also, there are no art-of-war/strategy/tactics Int-based skill to make it a worthwhile 4th stat for some martials.

Without the all-powerful Perception doing all the lifting, Wisdom is no longer the king of mental stats and becomes balanced with Charisma, especially if Warlock uses Intelligence as a casting stat.

It would also help if spells targeted more defences than Dex/Con/Wis. 5e24 had an opportunity for that, but they didn’t go (far) in that direction.