D&D 5E Is it possible to have a good-aligned final boss in a good campaign?

[S'mon]

Maybe the brave heroic rebels are rebelling against the just and lawful monarchy, as in the American War of Independence/American Revolution?

The idea that 'good people don't fight each other' seems to date from the mid 20th century - and has contributed to treating the other side as 'must be evil since they're fighting us'. From the mid 17th through to early 20th century, and especially 18th-19th, it seemed more common in Western culture for both sides to see the other as potentially Good, with war between them as a legitimate way to settle differences. This resulted
in often very 'civilised' treatment of the other side, ultimately embodied in the Geneva Conventions.

 

[spanglemaker]

Assuming you're okay with "good" being relative, then yes. It's not unreasonable to see gods or powerful minions of gods doing horrible things for the "greater good". Like....the orcs are usually the instigators of war in the world, say 7/10 of the wars in the last 1000 years were started by orcs. So the divine soldiers of good see them as evil and think the best solution is to kill them all.

The reason why the Orcs attacked was probably due to elves, dwarves, humans profaning their Sacred Space, or taking over their territory. Cultural differences, social etiquette, fundamental beliefs are seen in real life history. Ancient China viewed everyone else as barbarians, they generally had superior technology, literature, art, music and more.

Examples in Fantasy and Science Fiction, a culture can be pacifistic and another expansionist. A barbarian culture may value strength over intelligence, an elvish culture may value Dexterity and intelligent use of strength, another culture may value wisdom over all.

Good is always relative and and the old saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions is particularly apt.

 

[delericho]

For example, what if this good-aligned boss was trying to save the world, but the only way to do so was to sacrifice a nation? Does the greater good allow him to remain good-aligned?

It really depends on your take on alignment. My take would be that it's just barely possible, but it would absolutely require that the boss be part of the nation that is sacrificed. Otherwise, he's probably not looking hard enough for an alternative solution.

Basically, I want the PCs to have plenty of motivations to stop this person, but to have this person fight for a cause that allows him/her to remain good-aligned. Possible?

It's probably possible, but to be honest it would probably be easier and more satisfying to run this without using alignment at all. Easier because you don't have to engage in any mental gymnastics to ensure he stays Good (in alignment terms); more satisfying because then your players won't come to it with a black-and-white Good-vs-Evil standpoint but are more likely instead to discuss the morality of the specific situation.

IMO, of course.

 

[Sunseeker]

The reason why the Orcs attacked was probably due to elves, dwarves, humans profaning their Sacred Space, or taking over their territory. Cultural differences, social etiquette, fundamental beliefs are seen in real life history. Ancient China viewed everyone else as barbarians, they generally had superior technology, literature, art, music and more.

Examples in Fantasy and Science Fiction, a culture can be pacifistic and another expansionist. A barbarian culture may value strength over intelligence, an elvish culture may value Dexterity and intelligent use of strength, another culture may value wisdom over all.

Good is always relative and and the old saying that the road to hell is paved with good intentions is particularly apt.

And that's why the "good" gods of orcs, dwarves and elves go to war with each other.

 

[Bloodsausage]

See the most recent story arc in The Order of the Stick for a good example. You have multiple Good DEITIES wanting to destroy the entire world, because they fear that by not destroying it, there may be a multiverse-consuming evil able to be free. By destroying the universe and recreating it, they can prevent total annihilation of the multiverse, albeit at the cost of every life in the world.

 

[dmnqwk]

See the most recent story arc in The Order of the Stick for a good example. You have multiple Good DEITIES wanting to destroy the entire world, because they fear that by not destroying it, there may be a multiverse-consuming evil able to be free. By destroying the universe and recreating it, they can prevent total annihilation of the multiverse, albeit at the cost of every life in the world.

That's slightly different, because those deities are not viewing their subjects in a way much different from how we'd view ants... or the bacteria in our yoghurt.

How you define good is the most important aspect of pitting good versus good - The Borg Collective can easily be viewed as Lawful Good because they are improving the lives of many, creating a society free or war, famine, disease and helping to improve the quality most creatures exist in. Those same Lawful Good Borg are being attacked by the Lawful Good Federation, who would prefer to keep their individuality. So here we have 2 sides of Good (I know, many are horrified that Borg are Good, but they don't torture, they don't inflict pain for the sake of pain, they simply try to better society) with differing viewpoints simply trying to make the universe a better place to live.

 

[delericho]

How you define good is the most important aspect of pitting good versus good - The Borg Collective can easily be viewed as Lawful Good because they are improving the lives of many, creating a society free or war, famine, disease and helping to improve the quality most creatures exist in.

The Borg say they want that, but they're happy to exterminate anyone who refuses to be enslaved. Neither genocide nor slavery are Good.

 

[dmnqwk]

The Borg say they want that, but they're happy to exterminate anyone who refuses to be enslaved. Neither genocide nor slavery are Good.

This is where you are using personal bias in responding. You believe freedom is best, therefore you think anyone opposed to freedom cannot be good. The Borg do not enslave people, they improve them. Your personal beliefs allow for murder, theft, assault because of personal choice but that doesn't happen to the Borg, they live in harmony.

Now before you go off and pillory me for this viewpoint, you have to understand that personal bias affects most DnD Campaign opinions. If you put yourself into the mindset of a Wood Elf, who's home has been decimated by human logging, then would you believe humans are good? Or would you see them as evil, corrupt menaces that need to be eradicated. Would that make you evil for hunting down and exterminating every last one of them?

Alignments are very subjective but unless you at least attempt to remove personal bias as much as possible from this equation, you'll always fail to comprehend how good can battle good and yet both sides can be the bad guy.

 

[Galendril]

Pardon me, I have not read the entire thread.

The Watchmen comes to mind as a prime example of someone who has the best of intentions, but is lead astray.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I was thinking about having a final boss be a symbol of good, like a paladin or an angel (not fallen). I'm brainstorming ideas, but I don't know at what point does the good alignment shift to neutral.

For example, what if this good-aligned boss was trying to save the world, but the only way to do so was to sacrifice a nation? Does the greater good allow him to remain good-aligned?

Basically, I want the PCs to have plenty of motivations to stop this person, but to have this person fight for a cause that allows him/her to remain good-aligned. Possible?

Sure. Easy example: PCs are settlers. The "bad guys" are (American) Indians, and the final boss is the big Indian medicine man. He's a good guy and willing to sacrifice for others, but that doesn't mean he's going to roll over and play dead when the PCs are invading his peoples' lands. Think of Listens To Wind from the Dresden Files: clearly good-aligned, but not always on the same page as Dresden, especially during Turncoat.

The main impact of both sides being good-aligned is that the final battle doesn't have to end in a bloodfest--the possibility exists of a peaceful resolution. Maybe.